The Dime Episode 47 Transcript: The MSO Gang: How an Internet Army is Policing the Cannabis Industry ft. Kevin Carrillo host of the Cannabinoid Connect podcast

Cannabis Tour Guide, 8th Revolution

Editors’ Note: This is the transcript version of the podcast. Please note that due to time and audio constraints, transcription may not be perfect. We encourage you to listen to the podcast, embedded below if you need any clarification. We hope you enjoy!

In this episode, we answer questions like

• What is the MSO Gang?
• Why did the Governor of Nebraska say what he said?
• Which companies are crucial to moving the needle forward?

and explore
• our favorite cannabis industry leaders.
• the pharmaceuticals vs cannabinoid medicine.
• cannabis and its endless benefits.

All this and more on this week’s episode of The Dime.

Hosted by the founders of Eighth Revolution, LLC. Bryan Fields @Bryanfields24 & Kellan Finney @Kellan_Finney

Follow us on IG (@thedime_8th) and Twitter (@thedime_8th) to submit your listener questions.

Kevin Carrillo is the COO of Cannabinoid Nation, the industry’s premier brokerage and consulting firm, and the host of Cannabinoid Connect, a cannabis podcast about news, policies, tech trends, social justice, investing, cultivation, and the plant’s environmental, economic and medicinal benefits.



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[00:00:00] Bryan Fields : [00:00:00] What’s up guys. Welcome back to another episode of the dime as always. I’ve got my right hand, man, Kellan Finney here with me. And this week we’ve got a very special guest, Kevin Carillo. Kevin, thanks for taking the time. How are you doing today?

[00:00:14]Kevin Carillo: [00:00:14] I’m doing well, Bryan, thanks so much for having me on and Kellan what’s up? Good to see you guys.

[00:00:19] Kellan Finney: [00:00:19] Good to be seen, you know

[00:00:21]Bryan Fields : [00:00:21] Absolutely today, we’ve got some special topics, ones that I know the internet waves have been seen for a while. And Kevin, before we hop in, I’d love for you to kind of give a little bit about your backstory, how you got into the space and kind of educate the listeners on the value you bring to the industry.

[00:00:35] Kevin Carillo: [00:00:35] Sure. Yeah. I mean, I won’t go too deep. We might get into that later, but at a high level I started cannabinoid connect podcast back in April, or excuse me, March of 2020 ,  with the central mission to dispel all the lies and stigma that’s associated with cannabis. You know, we live in 2021 now and there are. A number of testimonials, but people that have used CBD and [00:01:00] THC and other minor cannabinoids to improve and enhance their daily lives. So, you know, the mission of the podcast is just to have smart people on from different disciplines that ,  really educate and inform people, you know, about the plants, endless benefits, because there’s a lot of them.

[00:01:15] Bryan Fields : [00:01:15] I love it. And a little bit about your background.

[00:01:19]Kevin Carillo: [00:01:19] Yeah. So my background ,  grew up in the land of enchantment, New Mexico, 30 minutes outside of Albuquerque town called Belen. And it’s actually timely because New Mexico and we can get into this, but they’re actually have less than 24 hours to get their bill passed ,  for, for rec. This legislation season, but ,  any who I grew up in, in Belen. I wrestled all my life, came from a wrestling family. I was recruited to Bucknell in Pennsylvania to wrestle. I wrestled for one year there and after I hung up the shoes ,  that was when, you know, I wanted to live a more kind of fulfilled life and cannabis was part of that lifestyle. So that’s really where I started to become a big consumer of cannabis.

[00:01:59]Bryan Fields : [00:01:59] Just [00:02:00] curious to know how that first eighth of the plant was right after you hung up  the shoes.

[00:02:05] Kevin Carillo: [00:02:05] Yeah. I mean, you know, like we talked about it before we started recording, like wrestling’s a, a grind, it’s a tough sport, right? I mean, there’s so many variables, not only as a D one athlete for all sports, you’re working, you know, working out hard, you got two a days, but then there’s that weight management factor, right. You’re, you’re constantly cutting way, meaning maintaining your diet. And it gets rough when you’re going to class and doing all that. So I really. Give those, those athletes a lot of respect at the college level. So yeah, I mean, after that intense kind of lifestyle, you know, being able to just go to class and, you know, do my studies and then smoke cannabis and, and unwind ,  it was a great, great transition man. And it has to stop, you know, I’m 32 now, so ,  I’ve just been continuing to, to make it part of my lifestyle.

[00:02:53] Bryan Fields : [00:02:53] Awesome. So let’s get into the questions for today as a fellow tribe member of the MSO gang, Kevin. The [00:03:00] people out there that are unfamiliar, what is the ?

[00:03:04] Kevin Carillo: [00:03:04] The MSO gang is a movement,

[00:03:06] Bryan Fields : [00:03:06] in my opinion. You know,

[00:03:08] Kevin Carillo: [00:03:08] if you’re familiar with the Twitter world and you’re, you’re kind of within the financial markets and you’re following different people, Bitcoin’s kind of a big revolution.

[00:03:15] Right. And I see the MSO gang,


[00:03:17] Emerging as that same type

[00:03:19] Bryan Fields : [00:03:19] of,

[00:03:19] Kevin Carillo: [00:03:19] of coalition in that group. And so I think what the MSO gang means is it’s it’s awareness around. The,

[00:03:26]Bryan Fields : [00:03:26] The

[00:03:26] Kevin Carillo: [00:03:26] high caliber companies that are currently operating within the United States, you know, on the, on my podcast, we’ve talked a lot about how there was this focus in 2018,


[00:03:37] With the Canadian LPs, right?

[00:03:39] Because they were one of the first list within the Canadian exchanges, the Tilray’s

[00:03:43] Bryan Fields : [00:03:43] raise

[00:03:44] Kevin Carillo: [00:03:44] the Aphria is the auroras and,


[00:03:46] You know, you didn’t really hear much about the multi-state operators, but you know, now as more States are coming online in the U S with either medical or adult use, these MSO’s are really starting to shine.

[00:03:59] Bryan Fields : [00:03:59] And [00:04:00] so I

[00:04:00] Kevin Carillo: [00:04:00] think that these, the MSO gang is the early adopters that really see the value of these companies. And they see that this is an opportunity for generational wealth and, and we’re all about the mission and the movement to just, you know, make cannabis more accessible to people.

[00:04:14] Bryan Fields : [00:04:14] Yeah, it’s definitely a movement.

[00:04:16] And when you think about it, you got like the Elon Musk is like the die-hards right. The Bitcoiners and the MSO gang. And just seeing the three of those operate on the end of that. Sometimes they all bleed together telling, have you any experience with the MSO gang? Are you a part of that tribe? Well, I’m definitely a part of that tribe.

[00:04:30] I like it because ,  I’m not ,  investing is like a new. New hobby for me, I’m only like two years into it. Right. So I just started like two years ago, but I was always like getting frustrated, trying to like invest in cannabis. Cause I’d like, I’d pick one company and I’d watch it for a month. I’d be like, it’s not doing anything.

[00:04:46] And then I’d like move over to another top company. And I was like, Oh, now that company is doing something. And I’m like playing this back and forth game. And I was like, I wish there was a sweet ETF that I could invest in that gave me exposure to all of them. And then lo and behold, the [00:05:00] MSO. Right. MSLs right.

[00:05:02] Came out and ,  and it was perfect. So I just reallocated all a lot of my cannabis. Assets into MSLs and I’ve been very grateful ever since. So that’s my experience with it. I mean, you probably could speak a little on a higher level about today. Brian, it’s more about an educational movement. I think the biggest, at least in my opinion, the reason MSO gang was formed was because people on Twitter took to  the internet and said, we’re sick of having US leadership on the television and them showing Canadian tickers.

[00:05:32] Something, the massive disconnect. And I think it took that sort of movement for people to be like, okay, like let’s just break it down. The companies that operate in Canada are not US-based companies. How to determine that they’re not MSLs. And I think that’s kind of the MSO gang, and I think it continues to come back to what you do really well on your podcast.

[00:05:52] Kevin is, can do the educational movement, right? If it’s an education moment of kind of opening the eyes to the [00:06:00] rest of society about the fact that differences between us and Canada, and then some differences, the operators in the U S for growing substantially. And I think that starts with understanding from an educational level where we need to go.

[00:06:11] Yeah, I couldn’t agree more, Brian. I mean, education is key in so many different facets of this industry, you know ,  you mentioned on the investment side and the education awareness around ,  these multi-state operators, right. That are performing very, very well in States like Florida, you have truly right.

[00:06:29] You’ve got the Cresco labs and curely and ,  terrorists and out of New Jersey. And so it’s so important that that people. Understand and are aware of these, these companies, right? Because ,  there’s a, there’s a window, you know, and we’re kind of in that ,  that opportunistic window where ,  they’re not really heard about and known about.

[00:06:48] And when that time comes, when safe banking happens, institutional investors come in and ultimately these episodes are listing within the NASDAQ exchange. It’s going to be a whole different story. You know, [00:07:00] and, and education, like I said, in, in different facets, you know, also on the stigma side, right.

[00:07:05] And the, the medicinal benefits side, right. There’s been so much misinformation and distance formation over the years due to prohibition that it’s really on, you know, the MSO gang and consumers of cannabis, advocates of cannabis to really step up and, and, you know, be comfortable, get out of that cannabis closet and, and just be part of this movement because it’s inevitable it’s going to happen.

[00:07:29] Yeah, it’s going to really change the world for the better on, on multiple reasons. So continuing on that, my question to you, Kevin is you’ve had a ton of really great guests with guests on your podcast has surprised you the most. I’d say one that really stuck out to me the most was sitting and talking with Len may ,  from endo Canna health.

[00:07:52] And

[00:07:53] Kevin Carillo: [00:07:53] the guy is really articulate and savvy when it comes to like our endocannabinoid [00:08:00] system and how these ,  cannabinoids and secondary compounds like terpenes and flavonoids, how they interact with each of our unique body chemistry. And, you know, being in a state like Texas, where we have a barely a medical program, right.

[00:08:17] It just fascinated me because if you’re, if you’re buying in the illicit market or, or even, you know, if you’re buying CBD at a retail shop, for the most part, like. We still don’t really understand everything what’s in those strains. I mean, like again, the terpene profile, the cannabinoid ratio and we, and then two to add to that, we don’t even really have a clear understanding of our endocannabinoid system and our genetic makeup.

[00:08:43] So we don’t really know, you know, if we’re. Super sensitive when it comes to this cannabinoid or that cannabinoid. So in our conversation, the way he was explaining this stuff was just, it blew my mind and it just really level set me in the way that we still have so much to learn. Not [00:09:00] only about the plant, but also ourselves and how, you know, we both biologically ,  you know, synergistically come together.

[00:09:10] Kellan Finney: [00:09:10] No. I think that was really well said. And I think that that right there is where ,  a lot of excitement, at least in the, in the scientific industry is, is just from, I mean, it’s this brand new opportunity for scientists to come in and just be able to publish low lying fruit. I mean ,  There’s just no fundamental research out there, right.

[00:09:28] Because of prohibition and kind of like the scientific blackout, if you will associated with the prohibition. And so like when I got in the industry, he couldn’t look up the boiling point of THC. Right. And so it’s just insane how far we’ve come. And I mean, there’s just ample opportunity for discovery in terms of the endocannabinoid system.

[00:09:47] Additional cannabinoids. I think they come out with like, they discover new canabinoids like every month now it’s, it’s pretty phenomenal. So like, that’s probably one of the most exciting things from a scientific perspective in terms [00:10:00] of ,  this opportunity right now, how long is it going to take? I figured that out.

[00:10:04] I

[00:10:04] Bryan Fields : [00:10:04] mean, we’re talking about personalized medicine about endocannabinoids. We’re talking about cannabinoids are coming out each month. Well, is that going to take Kellan to, to kind of get the ball rolling on, then us to start kind of putting these pieces of puzzle together?

[00:10:15] Kellan Finney: [00:10:15] I don’t think it’s going to take long, like from a scientific perspective, in terms of like doing the science and developing like the actual conclusions from these experiments.

[00:10:26] What I think is going to take a really long time, it’s going to be the red tape and the regulations and actually getting these. Madison’s into a ,  a channel to be delivered to consumers. That is the federal government’s comfortable with. It’s really where I think is going to be the biggest obstacle.

[00:10:44] But I mean, in the twenties, I mean, just look how fast they came up with a vaccine. You know what I mean? If there’s the resources there. Right. But I mean, if it’s true, though, if the resources are there, we can make in men, stride, scientifically speaking in a [00:11:00] short amount of time.

[00:11:02] Kevin Carillo: [00:11:02] I agree. I mean, if there’s that focus and see, and that’s the thing, right?

[00:11:06] We just need to get people past that point of the stigma. And the misunderstanding of the plant and, and that’s where that education factor comes in. That Brian mentioned of, if we can really start to communicate the benefits, you know, even if they don’t want to be a part of it or have it near them, at least be open to, you know, reform legalization on the legislative.

[00:11:28] Right. You know, side so that we can really start to improve lives and in so many different ways, whether it’s therapeutic or medicinally economically or environmentally, right. Because there, there is just so many benefits, but education is just, you know, it’s, it’s gonna, it’s a central kind of key, you know?

[00:11:45] Bryan Fields : [00:11:45] Right. And I think the first step with that is kind of. Fixing what’s wrong with society with all the people that are obviously in prison for the plan. And then starting to look at the plant from the positive saints, who much of society is like looking at things from a negative standpoint [00:12:00] of you got to take a drug test and it’s like, okay, you had a little THC in it by maybe use it for medical reasons.

[00:12:05] Maybe it doesn’t. He doesn’t have a job anymore. We have to stop the ball that we have to, we have to put the fundamental truth in front of us, which is it is plant helps people. And then from there we can start the building block from an educational standpoint. I don’t know how that’s going to take and yeah.

[00:12:19] Helen. I disagree. I think it’s going to take a long time. And while I wish it’d be fast, because obviously, you know, speed for me is always crucial. They’re not going to operate in warp speed. It’s just impossible. There’s going to be too many legislative hurdles. There’s going to be too many lobbyists, holding things back and big pharma is I think gonna cost more and they’re going to help.

[00:12:39] I think they’re looking to get in and by looking, I mean, they’re jockeying for position as we speak in different areas. And I think that involves them continuing to. Kind of build that moat of patents to protect themselves so that when the green light comes on, they’re not starting at zero they’re 50, 60% into the industry.

[00:12:59] Kellan Finney: [00:12:59] They [00:13:00] want go. I think one of the biggest misnomers about big pharma where I think they’re going to struggle in the cannabis space is there is a law. It’s not law. It’s you just, you can’t patent nature. Right? And so pharma can’t patent THC. Pharma can’t patent CBD, right? GW has a patent on CBD and other plant chemicals and some other formula chemicals that they formulated in there.

[00:13:27] They have a patent on that formulation specifically, but it’s the molecule CBD. That is the ABI within their, their pharmaceutical drug. Right. And so. I think that that’s going to be one of the biggest challenges, which why they haven’t jumped into this right. Is because they can’t patent plants and they can’t patent the natural extracts.

[00:13:45] They can’t plant the actual flower itself. And so there’s not this, there’s not like a free monopoly that they can come grab. Like they can’t in all these other ,  health sectors. Right. And then the other really complicated thing about cannabis and hemp as a [00:14:00] pharmaceutical is. Pharmaceutical companies hate side effects.

[00:14:04] The way that they mitigate all of those side effects is by doing single molecule drugs. Right? So it’s a single molecule, it’s an API, right. And that’s just one specific molecule and then they eliminate everything else. So they know that if something, if some side reaction that’s happening inside this individual, it’s because of this one molecule versus.

[00:14:24] Cannabis is hundreds of molecules, even the extract you’re talking turpines, flavanoids THC CBD, all these other different minors. Right. And like trying to decide, like what is causing a specific side effects through clinical trials with that kind of a cocktail, if you will, is going to be ,  an obstacle that pharma has never tackled before.

[00:14:45] Right. That’s why they do the single molecule API. Right. And this is, this is the staple of big pharma. So I think that those two factors are going to make it really, really challenging for pharma to come in and just wipe the floor [00:15:00] with everyone. You know what I mean? That there will be a big, there’ll be a, a large sector of pharmaceutical related cannabinoids that they, it’s not going to be THC.

[00:15:08] It’ll be like ,  a derivative of THC that nature doesn’t make that. Has a similar interaction. Right. And there’ll be able to patent that and there’ll be, there’ll be a little up a channel for them to kind of ,  own their little lot if you will. But I don’t think that they’re going to come in and mop the floor with all of these other big companies because of those two ,  those two factors.

[00:15:27] I mean, I could be wrong, but that’s just my perspective perspective on it.

[00:15:31] Bryan Fields : [00:15:31] What do you think Kevin.

[00:15:34] Kevin Carillo: [00:15:34] I mean, I don’t know enough about it to like, in that particular area. I know that you’re right. Like when, when Kellen mentioned that ,  GW created that it’s a synthetic, it was just called like Marinol or something with an M.

[00:15:47] Yeah. And it was, it was like for epilepsy, right? It was there. Kind of entrance into the farmer pharmaceutical space with synthetic cannabinoids. So ,  that was interesting. And so, I mean, that makes more sense [00:16:00] when you explain it, that way of why they went that route because ,  they’ll, they’ll always do that, I guess, or ,  but, but when I, when I think about it, Brian, you, which you mentioned, I, I think you’re right in the sense of like they’re playing both sides right now, pharmacy pharmaceuticals.

[00:16:12] There’s the pharmaceutical industry there. They’re playing the one side where they’re beefing up their lobbyists and continuing to distribute the misinformation and the propaganda right. To, to protect their interests. But then I think that on the side, of course, they’re doing their own R and D and, and studies to really see where they can play in this space space once it inevitably becomes about.

[00:16:33] Right. And so ,  I just think it’s interesting. I think that where, where we can kind of step in and really move the needle is like, like doing what we’re doing here. Podcasters really getting the word out. And then groups of people like you’re seeing celebrity brands come out, right? You’ve got Seth, Rogan’s a houseplant.

[00:16:52] You’ve got Jay Z a monogram. So those celebrities, those pro athletes, they have influence, they got people following them. So there’s one way [00:17:00] to remove the stigma. Start to educate on the benefits, but then there’s also, you know, the people that actually need it. So those testimonials that we mentioned earlier, those are super important.

[00:17:10] We need to get those out. How can you argue with someone who’s saying that, you know, what they took makes them feel better as opposed to the other 15 medications that they’re on? You know, and then the last group, I think that could really be a huge voice in proponents. Move the needle forward is women.

[00:17:25] You know, I think that there’s tons of benefits when it comes to women’s health and wellness. When it comes, you know, with, with cannabinoid therapeutics, we’ve seen it in history, play out with queen Elizabeth and others. And so I think that if that group kind of got together and started to raise of what go on, you know, The today’s show and all those accepted mainstream media shows to start to de-stigmatize this, I think that, you know, that that will really start to move the needle and maybe put pressure on the pharmaceutical companies to work with us more, instead of trying to do their own thing, you know?

[00:17:59] The women for [00:18:00] sure. Decision makers, right? That’s the, as a marketer, that is your target demographic. When you want the sweet spot of understanding, who are the power players in the space, they are the decision-makers are the ones that understand exactly. Like I’m going to get this. And then they’re the ones at home and being like, you’re going to take this Brian, like my wife’s like, by the way I saw this, like, you’re, you’re taking this product and it’s like, okay, like this is something I’m definitely interested in taking now.

[00:18:21]And to kind of continue on your first point though, about the pharmaceuticals. No one that I’ve spent some time digging around the patent space. And I can tell you that as a rabbit hole, any rabbit hole, and when you get down into the minor cannabinoids and understanding the direction they’re going, big pharma is already lining up their moat.

[00:18:38] Bryan Fields : [00:18:38] And it’s not that challenging to go find it. It’s just a matter of like, these guys are here and not only are they here, they’re already positioning kind of their fortress of saying like, this is the route we’re going to take. And whether it takes six months, 12 months, two years, We’re here. We’re ready to play.

[00:18:55] We’ve done the research in some aspects. We think this is the direction we want to go. And it’s [00:19:00] exciting to say the least, because obviously you could just be, you know, pre pre studies and kind of taking early steps, but just showing that they’re advancing, it is really, really exciting.

[00:19:11] Yeah. I mean, it just legitimizes everything, right.

[00:19:14] Kevin Carillo: [00:19:14] It starts to really flip the conversation from that’s a schedule, one narcotic it’s bad. It’s illegal too. Wait a second. Wait, what it does, what? And we have an endocannabinoid system and what’s the CB one receptor. What’s the CB two, you know, it starts to open that dialogue. It’s great. Yeah. Awesome.

[00:19:32] Bryan Fields : [00:19:32] So Kevin favorite company in the space and why favorite company in the space?

[00:19:39]Kevin Carillo: [00:19:39] I like, I like cure leaf. I like their recent announcement where like, you know, I, it was new, it was a chain, it was different from what the other episodes are doing, because they’re really, you know, you’re seeing terrorists end, really try to get their foothold in the East coast. You’ve got, you know, Florida hyper-focused with, I mean, truly hyper-focused in Florida ,  gage in Illinois.

[00:20:00] [00:19:59] So I like to cure, leave Bay that announcement about. Purchasing that European medical company. I forget the name of it. Or something like that. Yeah. So it kind of tells me that they’re looking even outside the U S they’re really trying to be, you know, the major player. And so ,  and I liked their, their leadership team, you know?

[00:20:19]I’ve listened to the CEO on their, on their earnings. Yeah. Calls Joseph. I forget his last name starts was a, B. Bear and yes. And then you’ve got Boris, Boris, of course. So yeah, I mean, I liked them and ,  but they’re all great. You know, I mean ,  these are savvy investors that have been in the space for a long time and they’re, you know, they’re, you can tell that their legacy as opposed to some of the other private equity guys that are stepping in ,  cause they just, they know the industry, you know, they, they know it from end to end and that’s what is exciting just to be a part of it as this, as the stakeholder, tell them who’s your favorite.

[00:20:50] Kellan Finney: [00:20:50] I’m a little biased. I like a smaller company called Swazi. Have you heard of them? They ,  I think they’re only strictly focused in Colorado right now, but they’re going [00:21:00] through buying a bunch of ,  Dispensary outlets, the dispenser outlets called Starbucks. And so from the very beginning, Starbucks has been around and like, I just, the way that they run their business from a storefront and the education and just like their branding, I was a big fan of them and I’m a Colorado local, so like support mistake.

[00:21:20] Right. And so that’s the ,  I think they were formerly known as medicine men. Right. And then they went through like a merger and rebranding, and now they’re Swazi. They’re not really as well known. They don’t nearly have as much volume, but they aren’t, they aren’t publicly traded as an OTC. But as far as like one of the bigger players goes, I would say Columbia care, probably just because ,  I’m ,  I think that from a business perspective, they’re, they’re really sound right.

[00:21:46]They’ve, they’ve done a lot of organic growth. The really, really strategic acquisitions ,  the green solution and Colorado, which is probably this, one of the top two, my second favorite ,  dispensary brand in Colorado. Right. And then their [00:22:00] strategic acquisitions out in California, I think that they were very patient and they’re really thoughtful on how they’ve been expanding and kind of growing that ,  footprint.

[00:22:09] And so that’s kind of why I’m a big fan of Columbia care as well. And so those are, those are my two. James, what about you, Brian? I think from a leadership perspective, we’re really spoiled. The top MSO is all have really, really established, strong leadership. They have different skill sets with an understanding strategically on the direction they want to go some focus on operations, someone financing, you can literally pick any of them.

[00:22:32] They’re really good. My favorite is ,  bend from green thumbs. I mean, he, he’s awesome. He’s been killing it. Yeah. He’s been carrying if people on the, like on CNBC, they’re like talking to him, they’re throwing him like. Stupid questions. Like we believe in science and we believe in, we like far facts are hard, right?

[00:22:51] Like new facts, I think you said are like hard to understand. He fucking them. And he, he doesn’t really bend with it. Like they continuously ask [00:23:00] him silly questions and he continues to push really informed of information. And it starts with understanding that the consumer wants more candidates and that.

[00:23:09] Bryan Fields : [00:23:09] The consumer, is it just going to be the one buying flower they might be having the drink can, which can nicely displayed on the media, right. Perfect product placement. And it shows it’s not a, it’s not a replacement for the person consuming flower, it’s replacement for the alcohol industry. And I think once people understand that.

[00:23:27] That they’re going to be competing in multiple product categories. The cannabis industry can go a million different ways and can kind of explode in a million different ways. And it’s an exciting opportunity. It’s not just this vertical. It is like the takeover effect.

[00:23:41] Kevin Carillo: [00:23:41] Yeah, no, no doubt about it. I’m so glad that you called out Ben, because that was awesome, man.

[00:23:46] Like I, and you saw everybody just kind of come to support him because he was just so composed, so articulate and, and, you know, he just came back with facts straight up, like, you know,

[00:23:57] we need to start holding these policymakers [00:24:00] accountable for the statements that they’re making like that the governor from Nebraska,


[00:24:04] Ricketts, who, who, you know, basically when, and these are his.

[00:24:07] Verbatim his exact words were, if you legalize marijuana, you will kill your kids

[00:24:12] statements. Like those ,  need to be challenged. And Ben did that. To a T he did a great job. And ,  yeah, I think, I think you’re right, man. The more like you know, of these, of these leaders within the industry that step up, like Ben’s doing, it’s only gonna help because it’s gonna make these policymakers change their, their, their game plan.

[00:24:33] You know, they’re going to start to realize that those ridiculous statements don’t play out in 2021, we’re too savvy as consumers, or even non-consumers to understand that, you know, there’s no addictive properties to cannabis. There’s no recorded death of an overdose of cannabis. Right. So that was, that was awesome for sure.

[00:24:53] Well, why does he say that? Why do you think Kelly’s like, why is he making that sort of outrageous statement?

[00:24:58] It’s such a good [00:25:00] question, because I’ve asked that question too. It’s gotta be one of two things. It’s either he’s ignorant and he’s heard the same rhetoric and has no experience with the plant.

[00:25:10] And so he’s just kind of going off of what he’s heard or he’s protecting interests, right? We know that they’re super PAC money for both of these parties. You know, we know that big tobacco and big pharma play a big part in those super pack, you know ,  efforts. And so I, you know, I could be that also where, you know, he’s, he’s talking to these people, but again, like if it’s that case, then he’s going to need to come up with new material because that shit is not going to work, you know?

[00:25:38] Bryan Fields : [00:25:38] I mean both. Those could definitely be it. I could just imagine he’s like circling something with a Sharpie being like, this is exactly where I think the death spot it. And you’re like, sir, like, I don’t know what you’re doing here. I mean, that’s an outrageous statement though, that he made and the fact that there are no recorded deaths and that Heath of opinions, like pushing against the, the huge momentum, right?

[00:25:58] Like we’re moving, [00:26:00] it’s going forward. We’re going to legalize more and more States, right? We’re going there. And for him to say something that’s so asinine in 2021. Wow.

[00:26:11] Kellan Finney: [00:26:11] Helen, you have thoughts on why he would say something like that? That’s a guess. I would say it’s the latter. I mean, I wish that could play ignorance in that and that it’s rhetoric and all those things.

[00:26:23] But like at the end of the day, like I think that, I mean, he’s politician, he needs money to run for his elections. And like, literally he is pleasing. One of his donors is the only thing that makes any sense. Like we could entertain the other factors, but like, let’s be real. Like, he’s probably just like.

[00:26:42] Doing a favor for his old buddy who wrote him a big check, you know what I mean? Like that’s, that’s how that world works. And so like, it’s nothing wrong with it. It’s just how the world, that’s how that politic world works. You know? So, I mean, especially with something as just audacious as that kind of a comment, you know what I mean?

[00:26:58] Like, just so [00:27:00] out in left field, like your children could die. If we legalize it, like. Well, if we legalize it, like everyone’s going to, we’re going to have militias and ananarchyD anarchy exactly.

[00:27:08] Kevin Carillo: [00:27:08] That’s what I thought. Like, like what kind of like finish your thought when you say that, like, what do you mean? There’s so many different ways you can interpret that statement.

[00:27:15] Kellan Finney: [00:27:15] And he’s like, literally at a press conference. So like everything’s Britain written down. I mean, we live in a world where you tweet something and it, you know, it’s, it’s crazy. I can’t believe he would say it. Yeah. This is how I envision like that scenario in my head. And maybe this is just me taking a dive.

[00:27:29] Is that. He got this piece of paper and it was from his donor. And he’s like, do you want me to say this? He’s like, exactly like that. So he’s like filtering through and he’s like, but I don’t agree. They’re like, you’re going to say that and you’re going to need it. And he’s like, you got it, like get up there.

[00:27:46] And like, he’s like, I know you’ve heard in the news that every state is looking to legalize it because we need tax money. But if we do, you’re dealt and we’ll die and he’s like, thank you for listening. It’s just, it’s wild. Yeah, I [00:28:00] tweeted. I was like, I hope that more politicians say that ridiculous stuff, because it’s only going to help our movement, you know?

[00:28:06] Cause we saw the, they saw the backlash with ,  with governor Ricketts, you know, so it’ll just give us more fuel to the fire. Absolutely. Keep getting that Moscow gang getting louder and louder.

[00:28:17] Bryan Fields : [00:28:17] So I can for you, Kevin, biggest misconception since you started working in the cannabinoid space.

[00:28:25] Kevin Carillo: [00:28:25] Biggest misconception. That’s a good question. I think the misconception, at least in my eyes was ,  the amount of people that are locked up for cannabis, like the real, real harsh reality of, of the social and racial injustice that has been related to cannabis. Cause you kind of talk about it in passing, you know, and, and especially, it’s kind of a, it’s kind of a ,  a bullet point, you know, now that there’s so much momentum for legalization and reform, but.

[00:28:54] Man, it’s an issue like I’ve had core Vancouver on who was recently ,  released on clemency from [00:29:00] president Trump’s administration. And I had Evelyn Chappelle on that last Chappelle, they were you involved in the same ,  cannabis conspiracy and just the unfairness man, like core vein. Had this conspiracy had two knocks against him before.

[00:29:14] So two other strikes that were minor cannabis offenses, and this guy’s live in life three years later after his ,  you know, after his set last charge. And so he’s thought nothing of it, he’s living his life. He’s got kids and the guy who was put in prison off of that cannabis conspiracy. Basically had the right to just one day say, Hey, core vein was involved in this.

[00:29:37] And so was Evelyn. And we, they need to get, come to jail too. And there was no investigation into their, you know, involvement. There was no checking to see evidence of their correspondence through texts of what they really talked about. They literally took that guy’s word that was in jail, who was the accomplice or involved and brought, they brought core vain and Evelyn and gel also.

[00:29:57] And, you know, Evelyn, I think served [00:30:00] was it. I don’t know, I don’t want to butcher that. I know that core vein sort of 10 years and he was sentenced to life. So ,  I was just surprised about how that process of like, once you’re, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re taking in from, for a cannabis offense, how they don’t do their due diligence, even they don’t look at your even track record to see, are you a prior offender?

[00:30:20] Do you have a record? No, it’s just kinda like they treat cannabis just like, you know, heroin or methamphetamine or, you know, And it, it just blew my mind, man. So that’s one thing that when we talk about education and you mentioned it initially that there’s just more focus and effort around that, especially with these big MSLs to make that part of their value proposition, their pillars within their company, to make sure that, that, you know, those injustices are rewritten because it’s a big problem.

[00:30:50] Bryan Fields : [00:30:50] Definitely. Before we wrap, we ask our guests three questions.

[00:30:55] So the Firstone, you could sum up your experience in the cannabinoid space into one main [00:31:00] takeaway or lesson you pass onto the next generation. What would that be?

[00:31:06] Kevin Carillo: [00:31:06] Keep learning. We have a lot to learn still about this plant. And ,  it’s exciting and it’s, it’s a plant that’s supposed to bring people together for, from whatever demographic, whatever background, whatever skin color.

[00:31:23] It’s a plant that brings people together to community and it helps to enhance their life, whether it’s through ,  material goods that can be produced through it, whether it’s therapeutic environmental. So just always keep that front and center that, that this plant is, is just for use for good and to keep learning because we’re barely scratching the surface.

[00:31:43] And it’s just exciting to be a part of this.

[00:31:47] Bryan Fields : [00:31:47] The last time you consumed any cannabinoid product. 20 minutes ,  before this podcast started,

[00:31:56] Kevin Carillo: [00:31:56] I had some slurry cane. All right. We’ll chat [00:32:00] out for them. So prediction time, let’s do two of them. Does New Mexico get it, Don. We are recording on March 19th. This won’t be released until April, so you’ll have a chance to kind of go back. We can record it both ways. If your bike doesn’t get done today. Hey, let’s, let’s bring it back.

[00:32:16] I’m happy to do it. I’ve had a great time. It’s such a good question, Brian. So I’m literally in New Mexico right now. This is my home state, so I have family here. I’m staying with my parents, but I’m here on business because, you know, everybody’s just kind of on their tippy toes waiting to hear what’s going to happen.

[00:32:32] So that the landscape right now is that ,  it’s gone to the Senate floor. And there’s been three amendments to this bill. And just to kind of back up, this has played out two years before, so they’ve, they’ve made this a major, you know, cannabis legalization, a major topic within the legislative session.

[00:32:48]And internally they weren’t able to come up with a resolution of what they agree on for what that bill looks like to get it to the governor’s desk because the governor’s ready to sign it. So they’re in the same [00:33:00] situation down in this legislative session. There’s three amendments that they need to resolve and agree on.

[00:33:04] Once that happens, they need to go to the house to implement those changes, and then they send it to the governor’s desk. So they got less than 24 hours ban. I’m hoping it happens cause it would be great for the state of New Mexico and obviously the consumers of the state. So I, yeah, let’s run it back ,  to, you know, the taco, if it’s, if it happened or it didn’t, you know, but.

[00:33:25]I, I there’s a lot that they have to do, so I’m on the side of being a little more pessimistic, but I hope of course, that it does. Now when you want to guess ,  I think I’ll go the other way. Why not? I think it happens. Optimistic, Brian agreed. I’m going to think it happens a lot. So I think it, with politics, it always comes down to the wire and all of a sudden they’re like, you know what, we’re good with these, sorry for holding it up.

[00:33:47] But life let’s get this done. They need the money for sure. Like every other state does and the job opportunity. So the last question, six months from now, and that’s again, bad here to stay. [00:34:00] And are they taking on the big pointers? The the game stopped Reddit guys and the Bitcoiners. I think that they’re going to be right in that mix, man, for sure.

[00:34:10] For sure. So they’re not going away. We’re going to see, I’ve kind of mentioned, I talked about this in two phases or three phases, so we’re going to see ,  first with safe banking come in whenever that’s going to happen, right. We’re going to see kind of an uptick and a spike, right? Because again, that’s when it’s not going to be just a cash business anymore, we’re going to be able to bank with banks.

[00:34:31] And then that’s when the institutional investors are going to come in at some point, right? The big private banks are going to invest in these companies. That’s going to be huge, eventually the NASDAQ things. So that’s going to kind of bring the elevation, the awareness of MSO gangs ,  at a higher level.

[00:34:44] And then, you know, after that, it’s just going to be, we’re riding the momentum of what we’ve been riding and that’s the States legalizing. You know ,  I see that the States are going to legalize ,  probably faster than the federal government, meaning like there’s going to be more States in the U S that are legal and that’s going to put [00:35:00] pressure on the federal government.

[00:35:01] So that’s going to be another wave, right. And spike where we’re going to get that awareness. And, and ,  and then the last is the, is the eventual federal legalization at that point, you know, that’s where you look at when there’s going to be major consolidation. Right. When we talked earlier about. Big pharma, big tobacco stepping in and buying some of these, these ,  top performing FSOs.

[00:35:22] So, you know, I see a lot of back and forth on Twitter and it’s like, you know, people are scared and they’re seeing the prices drop this day and that day. But I agree with, you know, like you said, all the. The investors and leaders in the space, the Jason Wiles, the ,  the Brady cobs, they’re all saying, this is a long game, Todd Harrison, right?

[00:35:40] Like we’re, we’re in this for the long haul. So if you’re, if you’re every day staring at your, you know, your portfolio and ,  I don’t know, that may not be the right approach because this is going to take time. But if you believe in it, Hey, it’s going to happen. What’s that final words. I couldn’t agree more.

[00:35:58] Yeah. The rap, [00:36:00] like you said, Kevin, like we’re in the bottom of the first and at the end of the day, we’ve got a ton of innings to go and the journey is going to have a bunch of bumps and entered it. Yeah, exactly. Whereas we’re still so early on there, they’re literally building the foundation for how the game is going to be played.

[00:36:17] And it’s a fun thing to walk with the same time he paid him. Right. We’ve had tons of progress, but still in the grand scheme of things still in the first, they’ve got a ton way to go. So. Appreciate your time today, Kevin, for all of our listeners that would love to get in touch with you. And like more obviously we can definitely connect is a great podcast.

[00:36:34] It’s a really educational tool for them. Where else can they get in touch with you? Yeah, no, first and foremost. Thank you guys so much. I had a great time today. You guys are really easy to talk to. It was really fun. So ,  great job and what y’all are doing. Yeah. So as you mentioned, Cabernet connect ,  is streaming everywhere.

[00:36:50]On, on any type of audio streaming service that you like. We also have a YouTube channel. And then I just launched my new website. So it’s cannabinoid, hyphen [00:37:00] And ,  yeah, all over social media as well. So Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. And ,  if you want to get in touch with B, my email is [email protected].

[00:37:11] Cool. We’ll link that up all in the show notes. So all the listeners out there continue to listen for us, give Kevin and listen, give them a review and then give us a review also because we’re competing for reviews. So thanks everyone for your time. Appreciate it. Kevin, talk to you soon. Awesome, man. Thank you guys.

Thanks so much for listening to The Dime . Subscribe or follow us on Seeking Alpha, Libsyn, Apple Podcast, Spotify, Google Play or Stitcher. And we’d really appreciate it if you could leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps others find our show.

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