Author: Joy

Editors’ Note: This is an excerpt from our Monthly Playbook. If you would like to read the full monthly playbook and join the thousands of others you can sign up below.

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Editors’ Note: This is an excerpt from our Monthly Playbook. If you would like to read the full monthly playbook and join the thousands of others you can sign up below.

Editors’ Note: This is the transcript version of the podcast. Please note that due to time and audio constraints, transcription may not be perfect. We encourage you to listen to the podcast, embedded below if you need any clarification. We hope you enjoy!

How does a company handle cannabis from seed to sale across multiple states with regulation differences?

Listen to The Dime podcast’s episode where Bryan and Kellan speak with Robert Beasley of Cansortium. 

Cansortium has developed strong proficiencies in each of cultivation, processing, retail, and distribution activities, the result of successfully operating in the highly regulated cannabis industry.

Listen to today’s episode for:West Coast vs East Coast Cannabis Florida legal cannabis market Educating new cannabis users Cannabis scaling limitations

Receive more information on Cansortium through their website: https://investors.getfluent.com/

Love The Dime Podcast? Sign up for our monthly report to receive insights and trends into the cannabis market: https://www.eighthrevolution.com/monthly-report/

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[00:00:00]Bryan Fields: This is the dime, dive into the cannabis and hemp industry through trends, insights, predictions, and tangents. What’s up guys. Welcome back to that episode of the dime I’m Brian Fields of with me as always is my right-hand man Kaelin Finney. And this week we’ve got a very special guest Robert Beasley, CEO of consortium that does business as fluent.

[00:00:23] Robert, thanks for taking the time. How are you doing today?

[00:00:25]Robert Beasley: I am great. Thank you for having me on

[00:00:27]Bryan Fields: Kellan, how are you doing??

[00:00:29]Kellan Finney: I’m doing great, really excited to talk to a couple more east coasters today,

[00:00:33]Bryan Fields: before we dive in, I’d love to get a little background about you and how you got into the academy.

[00:00:38]Robert Beasley: Well, like a lot of folks that have entered into this space.

[00:00:41] I was a frustrated lawyer. I had a full-time practice and commercial litigation and real estate development and became involved in the early days of the constitutional amendment guidance in Florida when the amendment two was being passed and proceeded to track into the legislative process. And then the regulatory process assisting [00:01:00] clients with the more legal, technical issues of applications and guidance and.

[00:01:04] Ultimately I ended up on the boards of a board of one of the first MTCs in Florida and made my way through that to be the chairman of the board, and then brought that company through its early days of development with processing packaging. And. And we ultimately sold that company to Africa, which is now Liberty.

[00:01:24] And so from there, I went out to develop other cannabis businesses throughout the United States and Oregon, California, and Washington DC. But it was the same thing someone had received or investor group had received the ticket and now they needed to turn it into a business. And so. Kind of becoming known as the startup guy, helping these startups get on the ground and off the ground.

[00:01:45] And then was asking January of 20 summer of 19 to come in with the fluent and do a different role, which was more of a consultant role in helping the company pull wings up and nose up and get back in the game. So having performed that role. I guess I’m now [00:02:00] a startup guy and also the salvage guy.

[00:02:02] So we’ve taken the fluid company from where it was to great Heights now. And I’m very proud of the progress of the last year and a half.

[00:02:09]Bryan Fields: What was one of the biggest challenges that you’ve seen in the growth of fluent? And then let’s dive into kind of what fluent.

[00:02:16]Kellan Finney: So fluent is a multi-state operator and that’s, that’s, that’s the first thing to know about one of its biggest challenges and its challenges in the condition that I came into was not really that different from Mednet or some of the other entities, you know, in the early pioneer days, it was a race for footprint.

[00:02:32] It was a race for licenses. So fluent. No. They were originally awarded the knots license in Florida, one of the first seven big deal, big award. And then they went out and got a Texas license and then a Michigan license and then a couple of Pennsylvania licenses, then a Puerto Rico license. And so they ended up in the state having run this race.

[00:02:52] What I call a hundred miles wide and one inch deep, you know, being spread out so thin. Capital’s very hard to come by in this market, although it’s getting better [00:03:00] in this sector. And so not able to be in a position to invest vertically in their assets to develop them out. So what we did was we pulled back to the essential core footprint what the moneymakers were, where the big markets were Florida being the premier.

[00:03:14] And then started investing vertical in the company instead of being so horizontal and that, you know, big picture shift change. That’s really the heart of it. And many, many companies found themselves in that same circumstance, they had more licenses and more potential than they had assets to develop and Capitol.

[00:03:29] And I just want you

[00:03:30]Bryan Fields: to expand for our listeners that are on familiar. Can you expand on horizontal versus vertical from an investment standpoint?

[00:03:36]Robert Beasley: Sure. So in the context, I was just using it horizontal breadth of coverage, meaning number of licenses, a number of states, you know, MSO means multi-state operator and to be a Mo MSO, you have to be in more than one state.

[00:03:49] And so that was the early pioneer goal of these companies with. Go get that next license so that they were in more states. So you can achieve that. And it [00:04:00] takes capital and time and effort to get that license. But the license is just a piece of paper. And then from there, you’ve got to do the hard work, which is, you know, you’ve got to build a cultivation center, you’ve got to build a processing center, you’ve got to build a retail, whatever your licensing allows you to do, you’ve actually got to actually do it, which is a lot harder sometimes in being the lucky winner of a.

[00:04:19] So that’s the vertical versus horizontal concept I was talking about in that context, typically that those phrases are used in the context of the type of licensing that is available in a state. Some states allow entry points into the market at other stages. Like you can just retail or you can just process, or you can just grow some states like Florida and Texas are truly vertical.

[00:04:42] And that’s where you hear that word used most often, meaning that we do it all literally in. We grow the plant and we sell the final product from cradle to grave, seed to sale as they call it. And so we’re responsible for every step of the process and we can’t sub any of it out. And that makes it very difficult because [00:05:00] it’s one of the few industries that I know of.

[00:05:02] And maybe the only industry where we are an agricultural. We’re a chemical manufacturing company. We’re a processing packaging company. We’re an advertising company. We’re a marketing company, we’re a retail company. And we also are a logistics company to support all the movement of those steps that I just told you.

[00:05:19] So it makes it very, very complicated in highly regulated and very capital. And I’m

[00:05:24] glad you shared that in Kellen. I want you to expand on that. Cause a bunch of times we’ve talked about as a vertical integration company, you’re essentially like Robert described you’re all these companies in one, so kind of specializing one makes it even more challenging.

[00:05:36]Bryan Fields: Kellen can expand on that.

[00:05:38]Kellan Finney: I’m just laughing. Cause Robert, you literally almost said exactly what I was going to say verbatim. As far as vertical integration goes, I mean, running an agricultural centric business requires. A completely different set of operators versus a chemical business versus a retail location.

[00:05:54] I mean, it’s, it’s pretty wild in terms of how all those departments have to play together. [00:06:00] And then you add to the fact that you guys are not only doing it in Florida, but you’re also doing it in other locations as well.

[00:06:06] So how

[00:06:07] do

[00:06:08] regulations and those kinds of challenges

[00:06:10] from state

[00:06:10] to state affect that vertical

[00:06:12] integration?

[00:06:13] model You have two components of that. You have the regulations themselves. And of course we have developed regulatory compliance department, a legal department, if you would. And, and every person has their own specialty. So we have a Michigan person, a Pennsylvania person and and so forth. And so you know, the rules are different.

[00:06:29] They are somewhat similar in many aspects. A lot of the testing protocols are similar, a lot of the ways of seed to sale tracking. Software may be different. The concept is the same, but what sometimes we see as the most difference is the regulatory attitude that we face. For instance, Michigan, Michigan is either understaffed or under motivated from a regulatory point of view.

[00:06:53] They’re just not that interested in helping out the industry or really even policing the industry, [00:07:00] which causes this massive influx of illegal activity. Illegal. Very very slight regulation. They’re not doing their job. And when they don’t do their job, they don’t protect the market, which means we’ve got capital outlay that we don’t get the returns on.

[00:07:15] The pricing, is that what we thought it would be because of all the illegal product. So you go from there down to Florida, Florida, they’re doing their job. They’re enforcing, they’ve got a robust reinforcement group. They also have a very cooperative administrative group for things like variances. Move that over to Texas DPS, a Texas, very small program, three licenses.

[00:07:34] Those guys are actively helping us everyday, trying to help us get our businesses off the ground. Get a viable economic model. They want some. And so we almost have a partner in Texas with the regulators to try to help us navigate, whereas Florida they’re regulating us, but they’re doing a good job.

[00:07:51] And then Michigan, they’re not doing anything Pennsylvania. You know, they’re an understaffed department. And so getting things like advertising, here’s an example, very strict [00:08:00] advertising rules in Pennsylvania to open a store. Every thing you say and do and put to the press has to be. Their process of proving.

[00:08:08] It takes a while and you got to keep calling and asking, when is it going to get done? Well, in the meantime, I’ve got a store that opened that is completely unsupported by advertising. It’s what we call a soft opening in the business, but you usually don’t have a two month long soft open. And so, you know, I can’t get my regulatory partners to understand that I need this stuff approved so that people know where I’m at and what I’m selling.

[00:08:29] You have a variety of environments that are different, but not necessarily different because the rules are different. They’re different because the posture and staffing capabilities of the agent.

[00:08:39]Robert Beasley: Which just adds to another layer of complexity and the challenges that face on a day to day basis. So when you’re staffing those positions, are you putting somebody in a higher macro role overseeing certain verticals, or are you putting them in specific and saying, Hey, you’re in charge of X for Michigan and Y for Florida.

[00:08:55]Kellan Finney: So for client’s point of view, I’m the chief legal officer of our [00:09:00] company has within his department. Other law. That are assigned and tasked with knowing what the Michigan rules say. So when I want to know whether we can do something in Michigan, you know, there’s someone on the phone there that says, I know these Michigan rules so forth.

[00:09:14] We also have local council if it’s a zoning matter, so forth, but from a operations point of view, each of the operations have a kind of a person in charge on the ground. And so usually have an interaction between them. It’s illegal at headquarters, then it gets to my office and headquarters. Do you guys see a significant operational differences from like

[00:09:34]Robert Beasley: Michigan, which is an adult use state versus Florida, which is medical market.

[00:09:37] I mean, but fundamentally are you guys running the businesses the same or are there, and there’s just kind of like

[00:09:43]Kellan Finney: slight nuances that

[00:09:45]Robert Beasley: change from the

[00:09:46]Kellan Finney: medical to the adult use market. So, you know, you mentioned how our business is divided in a vertical scenario in sectors. And so I can answer that question by sector.

[00:09:56] So in the agricultural base aspect, it is [00:10:00] different because it’s different climates, different growing environments. Even within Florida, we have three facilities in Florida. Each of the facilities has their own facility manager and those facilities are organisms.

[00:10:11]Robert Beasley: Things are a little bit different from facility to facility, how they do things because you’ve got different.

[00:10:15] enviornmentals When you take a facility in Florida and then compare it to the one in Michigan, totally different environments. You know, up there, they gotta worry about frost Florida to never has a frost. There’s all kinds of, so agricultural practices are different, but that’s being driven by the environment, the next step, which is processing, not all that different, you know, how you extract the equipment you’re using the resulting process.

[00:10:37] Flower stream versus a oil stream is all kind of the same. Then when you get to the retail arm, it’s again, a little different in those states, which are non vertical. You have entry at the retail level of wholesalers where our shelves may stock. For instance, in Pennsylvania, our shelves may start the Cresco.

[00:10:57] It may stock a pyramid or curely product [00:11:00] along with our own products. Whereas in Florida, it’s just,

[00:11:04]Kellan Finney: I appreciate you

[00:11:04]Robert Beasley: highlighting that. So before we dive into some of the, more of the specifics in the Florida market, obviously no day’s ever the same, but from a hundred percent, if you were going to chunk your day into percentages on, on how you spend your day and responsibilities, can you kind of break that down for us?

[00:11:18]Kellan Finney: Sure. You know, it’s kind of like a speech I just gave to some of the managers the other day. You know, you, you handle plants and stuff until you get to a certain level of management and then you handle more people than you do stuff in processes. And by the time you get to my level, you’re mostly all handling people.

[00:11:33] And so I manage by consulting and giving a directives and taking him. But from. And those teams are representative of any one of the components. This morning I’ve had, this is my fifth zoom of the morning, and this morning, the zooms and called someone from processing and packaging on methodologies of segregation, purely from Florida, just messed up by getting some, not tested product on the market that had mold.

[00:11:58] And they had to recall it. And it’s a [00:12:00] terrible embarrassment for them. They’ve had to recall some product because of the mold, but honestly, it was a very easy, simple mistake that. And so I spent an hour or two this morning with those teams, understanding how we can do better and not be on the news for selling out product that wasn’t tested yet.

[00:12:13] You know, nothing, it was a very easy, simple mistake that has big consequences. So my day is. Sitting in on meetings where teams that are prepared to propose solutions. And sometimes I’m just that final decision. You know, ultimately I take recommendations from those who know and I make the decision and the way I talk about it is I decide because of it’s a total disaster is my fault.

[00:12:36] If it’s a total heroic when it’s your, your compliment. So after that, what I do is I, I talked to investor groups, you know, we are publicly traded. We have many stakeholders that want. A lot of those stakeholders are active because they hold large percentages and they feel entitled and privileged and they are entitled and privileged to call the CEO and ask them some questions.

[00:12:56] I have to be very careful about not releasing material non-public [00:13:00] information. We only do that at the quarters, but you know, the creative investors that are in the business, they can ask a bunch of questions and try to get themselves up a little bit more confidence in what’s going on. So I do a lot of investor relations and then I do a lot of brand awareness and advertising for the brand fluent, like this podcast.

[00:13:17] I do interviews and podcasts and talk about the brand and talk about the market.

[00:13:21]Robert Beasley: So let’s talk about the Florida market. What would you say is the current state of the Florida medical.

[00:13:26]Kellan Finney: So it’s still developing. It still has lots of room to grow. There is a current patient slow down as far as new patients and where we hit that 600,000 market has been slowed around the hill.

[00:13:38] And that is because we haven’t had a legislative driver to bring new patients in. There are plenty of additional, extra patients out there in Florida that are potential patients that have not come to the market. But what we saw. You know, you had a low THC, the high THC, that was a big driver. Then flour came on board.

[00:13:55] Then edibles came on board and every time the government or the regulators [00:14:00] released some component of the industry to provide additional services or conditions or whatever, we had a wave of new patients in DOH has been silent on that. For some time, we haven’t done anything from a regulatory point of view that was newsworthy that caused an additional patient group to come from.

[00:14:16] Our to come to the market. So that’s why you have the patient slow down, but the market is very robust, very active. And so the demand is still there. Now on the supply side, you know, in the last 12 months, we’ve seen the bigger MSOE come in and buy up some little guys we’re in a consolidation period. Those bigger companies have more capital to put on the ground.

[00:14:37] They are all in expansion mode right now. We’re not yet seeing the effect of. In the market, in the pricing of the market, although there was recently a discount where we can talk about but that wasn’t really anything more than an instance we can talk about, but, but we’re what we will start to see increased pricing competition, increased product availability.

[00:14:57] As far as types of products, you know, the Florida [00:15:00] market will be the consumer will be better served. In the next 24 months than they are now with store availability. I mean, I, you know, some of these guys, the bloom up purchased by Cresco, they’re coming in strong. They’re going to put however many stores on the ground in the next 12 months.

[00:15:17] And so folks who don’t have a store nearby, we’ll probably have one in a year from now. So that’s going to help the consumer cost of board. So pricing will start to inflect down a little, but not a lot. Honestly, the fact is that we’re all doing it the same. You can talk about who does good, who does bad, but the results of the regulations overlaid on the environment, overlaid on the cost and efficiencies.

[00:15:40] We’re pretty much all doing it the same way. And it cost us pretty much all the same costs. So there is a, a, a point where you know, we’re not going to sell it for less than we make it for. And so there’s a limit that price decline. There will be an adjustment that benefits the consumer, but it will not continue to go down for.

[00:15:58]Robert Beasley: Share some more information on the [00:16:00] Florida market. I know you’ve done some research there from a pricing standpoint, kind of expand on

[00:16:03]Kellan Finney: it. I just I gonna take one

[00:16:05]Robert Beasley: moment and highlight what Rob said that they’ll never sell. Anything for less than they make it. I think that’s brilliant business advice,

[00:16:12]Kellan Finney: honestly.

[00:16:13]Robert Beasley: But yeah, the price war is a thing happens

[00:16:15]Kellan Finney: in every single state from my experience

[00:16:17]Robert Beasley: where my

[00:16:17]Kellan Finney: mind goes is, yeah,

[00:16:19]Robert Beasley: there’s different strains of cannabis. And like Rob said that they’re all kind of following the same recipe as far as trying to generate

[00:16:27]Kellan Finney: the, the highest quality material for the

[00:16:31]Robert Beasley: least amount of capital.

[00:16:32] So with everyone kind of running towards the same finish line, how do you separate yourself from the pack?

[00:16:38]Kellan Finney: Robert there’s a lot of things that, that do that. New and innovative products. Florida’s a very young consumer market. This may be stale data, but our patient age was 53 average patient age and they were new timers to cannabis.

[00:16:52] And so, whereas when you go out west and you look at the patient market that they’re in the quasi medical, [00:17:00] California market, when it was, you know, a lot of those were traditional cannabis. Now coming into the system and adopting it for medical use, but their daily consumption that didn’t change much.

[00:17:09] They just went from buying it illegally to buying illegally. Whereas our patients are a lot of times, this is their first experience with this medicine known as cannabis. And so they’re young consumers inexperienced consumers, but now we’re educating them. And what we’re doing is the competition is telling this consumer, Hey, You know, it’s not all about THC because right now, THC sells in Florida.

[00:17:33] TC always sells at a young market, but when the competition comes in and you get a cookies and jungle brothers and those guys, younger boys, I’m sorry. And those guys come in and they’re like, Hey, it’s not about all THC. Look at these other qualities of the plant. Look at these other, you know, let’s talk about canabinoids Tom, a terpene.

[00:17:51] And so all of a sudden the consumer starts being told what they should be looking for, and then they become more savvy and that’s the direction [00:18:00] everything’s heading. And so, you know, truly, you know, truly, it was just massive in quantity and really mediocre and quality. My very first report to the fluid board.

[00:18:11] The very first month I was on the job was we sell a mediocre quality and quantity. Those are the facts. Good news. So does everyone else. And so we’re right in the market, but that’s going to have to change and that’s going to be the movement. It’s going to be an interesting dynamic where pricing settling down, the quality is going up, and then we’re talking about quality more.

[00:18:30] And that’s really in the flower industry. And then with respect to the other products, there’s lots of new, innovative products that have not yet been on the Florida market. As we roll those out, for instance, we’ve got this. Pre-packed three and a half gram pipe right now, little glass pipe that is just flying off the shelves.

[00:18:46] Convenience. It’s not a pre-roll, but it has the convenience of a pre-roll. We discovered this, this product from, from another vendor and we’re the only ones offering it. Now we’ve got that edge, right? We’re going to sell that product and people are going to come in for that product. So [00:19:00] those are the couple of ways that you stay competitive with

[00:19:04]Robert Beasley: your board.

[00:19:04] Surprised when you, when you told them that message about the quality of.

[00:19:09]Kellan Finney: No, I made sure that I followed it with it’s okay. Because everyone else is. But it was a hard message and it was meant to be delivered for the impact that it had, because what I was doing was advising on the current status of our company versus where we needed to go.

[00:19:24] And so it wasn’t so much to be derogative towards our company’s products or anybody else. It was just, here’s where we are in the. And I always prepare it to alcohol. When you start out first, legally able to drink no one drinks before they’re legally able your energy level is fireball shots, tequila shots, high, high octane stuff.

[00:19:44] You’re all about potency, you know, jello shots, you know, then later, you know, you’re, you’re drinking beer, but you maybe try a craft beer and really focus on quality over quantity. Then you know what time you get my age? You’re a red wine drinker or maybe a nice stock, but you just want a glass. You don’t need to drink the whole [00:20:00] bottle for your night’s views.

[00:20:01] That is the same evolution that you see in cannabis. When you come into a young market, we are still in THC cells, but we are coming out of it now we’re, we’re maturing in

[00:20:11]Robert Beasley: the, so when we talk about maturing, are we using data sets from a previous sales? Let’s say if purely product in Michigan, for example, like you were saying before, it’s selling really well on a certain product form and you know, it might hit a specific demographic here.

[00:20:26] Is that one that fluent might look to integrate into their portfolio? Or how do you do about the development of the information and then moving it forward from marketing.

[00:20:34]Kellan Finney: So, you know, the winds blow and cannabis from the west to the east. And then they, they blew to the Northeast first, across the top of the country.

[00:20:41] And then the Southeast is still the last frontier. Now, you know, we have many Southern states that don’t even have a program yet, but their legislation is in process. We look out west at what’s coming down the line. We were just at MJ biz out in Vegas. You’re looking at what’s going on, you know, go to planet 13.

[00:20:56] So you, their concepts see their product lines, see what’s happening [00:21:00] out there. And so that’s what we look to. Not necessarily our other stores, but that Western. But here’s the problem. It doesn’t evolve as fast as you can drive or fly from California to Florida. And that’s the, that’s where a lot of these California brands are really, it really breaks their heart.

[00:21:14] I mean, you know, I talked to them and they tell me how they’re going to do this thing in Florida. And I tell them, they’re not going to that the thing they’re doing 40 isn’t ready for yet, because they flew over here on a plane, but the market didn’t come that fast. And so you can look at that as an example of where your.

[00:21:30] But then the trick is what’s the pathway between here and there. How do we bring those customers along? How do we get them acquainted to this product? Because I can throw a Western product, a California product on my shelves and it flies off the shelves out west. And it doesn’t move here because they’re not ready for it.

[00:21:46] They haven’t been educated to accept it yet. And so that’s the biggest.

[00:21:51]Robert Beasley: How do we educate people to accept that it’s going to come through the

[00:21:54]Kellan Finney: competition? You know, I used jungle boys in cookies and I’m not sure what’s going on with cookies, but cookies [00:22:00] rolls in here. You know, you hear the name cookies.

[00:22:02] Well, if I’m a Florida consumer that just tried cannabis for the first time. And, you know, and literally this is a real example. I brought a note from my pastor to make sure that it was okay, that I try cannabis because it’s the devil’s weed. Cookies are a, are a dessert to me. Right. It means nothing to me, but when the advertising and the word gets out that there’s this aspect of cannabis, that is a quality.

[00:22:26] That is a whatever. Maybe I try it, you know, maybe I go, well, let me try this thing. And I’m not trying to advertise cookies in this podcast. I’m just using as an example of a Western brand movies. You know, there’s nothing particularly unique about what they’re doing, except they’re growing a different profile, but I’m not ready for that profile yet.

[00:22:42] Unless I’m told that I should try it. It’s about consumer awareness. And so the competition is going to do it. We’re going to say, Hey, try this thing. We’re doing. And then someone else is going to say, Hey, we’re doing that thing too. You should try ours. And then together, we push each other up in in consumer awareness,

[00:22:58]Robert Beasley: we’ll send burner a [00:23:00] bill for the podcast.

[00:23:02]Kellan Finney: You know, I know he’s much respected in the industry and I I’ve got no issues with them. I just know that, you know, it’s not as quick or spin up as, as people expect it to be cookies, really unique

[00:23:11]Robert Beasley: brand to, especially for like the

[00:23:13]Kellan Finney: Florida demographics.

[00:23:14]Robert Beasley: Like when I think of Florida, like my grandparents used to live in Florida, like I think of a lot of.

[00:23:19]Kellan Finney: Kind of the older generation that’s settled down and like, like you said, like, I mean, I don’t

[00:23:24]Robert Beasley: have the sweet tooth I had when in my twenties. So I imagine that it does not, it

[00:23:28]Kellan Finney: continues to trend that way.

[00:23:29]Robert Beasley: So it sounds like a hard brand even push in like an older

[00:23:33]Kellan Finney: population. That’s just my 2 cents.

[00:23:34] So I’ve met with many, many brands from out west and, and like I said, it’s, I feel like I, I feel like I break out with my girlfriend every time I do that, because I really, I really heard the farmers because they are really keen on their brands and, you know, good gracious. They’ve made a ton of money off their brands.

[00:23:50] All they had to do was stick the brands out there and it was readily absorbed and they got a great. And then when they look at me and I say, it’s not going to work here. People don’t know you and they don’t [00:24:00] care. Because we don’t have multiple brands on our show. They walk into our store, it’s all fluid.

[00:24:05] And that’s because it’s required to be all fluid. And I had one gentleman, one young man who’s made a million dollars out west. He said, well, that’s because y’all, aren’t using any billboards. You don’t even know how to use billboards in Florida. So I, you know, Florida’s got a lot of billboards. You probably should take note of the fact that it’s illegal for us to do.

[00:24:21] So, you know, when you come from out west to Florida, you’re going to follow the same rules we do. You’re going to get in the same box that we do, which means white labeled products, no colors, no, no artificial colors, no artificial labels. You know, you’re going to sell your stuff in the same white box.

[00:24:37] I’m selling mine. And now what are you going to do? So that’s my branding. Doesn’t follow.

[00:24:43]Robert Beasley: The game becomes a little more challenging when some of the rules are a little more tighter. And as you were saying perfectly, the west coast there, they’re used to with different kind of set of skills and rules to play by.

[00:24:53] And when they come to the new markets, it’s a little surprising sometimes for them because the adoption is just a little more different [00:25:00]

[00:25:00]Kellan Finney: in the news. The bad news for them is all the Southeastern states are going to do the same. They’re all going to be tight. They’re all going to be really restrictive.

[00:25:06] You know, the catchy logos and everything may not pass. It’s good for the, for the industry as a whole, you know what I mean? It’s at least it helps stick, change the cultural stigma. You know what I mean? I mean, it’s a win, right? That’s what I chalk it up

[00:25:20]Robert Beasley: as a win

[00:25:20]Kellan Finney: because we’re playing the long game. So to get, I get legislation passed in the Southern states, you have to do a lot of compromises and all of this compromises have to do with, you know, making it not recreate.

[00:25:30] Pot and making it a drug making it a medicine. So when you start stripping out all the recreational aspects, that’s what you have to do to get it past, you know, you don’t have,

[00:25:39]Robert Beasley: I mean, I don’t have any sweet branding label on my medicines. I go pick up at the pharmacy. So, you know what I mean? Like it’s the same orange bottle with

[00:25:49]Kellan Finney: the light, like candy it’s medicine.

[00:25:50] That’s right. Yup. So

[00:25:53]Robert Beasley: let’s, let’s continue on the conversation. How do you Robert balance let’s say growth into new markets [00:26:00] versus optimization into current markets. How do you balance that relationship? So

[00:26:04]Kellan Finney: when you grow into a new market, you have to understand what the challenges of that market or Texas is the best example.

[00:26:11] Texas has a very low patient registry right now was 5,000 people. I think it may be higher now. Since the new legislation came through. And so when you think about that market, what does that mean? Well, you know, there’s three licenses in Texas currently, but we could service five to 10,000 customers just with our facility.

[00:26:29] So, you know, there’s, there’s not enough people there that are actually participating in the program. So you’ve got to think about, well, what do, I’ve got to do vape? I’m not about capturing market share. I’m about creating market. So you go back old school, Florida ways where you have these cannabis awareness days, you have these educational seminars, you hold banquets in the hotel, lobbies and the hotel banquet rooms, where you bring people in and go, let me teach you about this because you’ve got to learn.

[00:26:54] And here’s the trick where you teach the consumers. You got to teach the physicians because they all have to go through a gatekeeper [00:27:00] and you don’t have a lot of physician buy in, in the early market. So you’ve got to touch that physician market, get them buying in, find out who your physicians are. That are interested in being in the market because it’s not a money maker for doctors.

[00:27:13] You’re not going to have a orthopedic surgeon, turned cannabis doctor, unless it’s commensurate with their retirement. From the orthopedic surgery practice. It’s not insurable, it’s cash pay. It’s, it’s limited on what the doctors can make. And it’s very clinical and. So you’ve got to get the physician development first because they’re the portal to get the customers in.

[00:27:33] You’ve got to think about. And that was just an example. When you asked me, how do I break into a new market? Well, that’s how I break into texts. Other markets, it’s more about product competition, whereas development of your existing market right now has to do with footprint and production capacity.

[00:27:48] Historically, every market is underserved and production. Florida’s the same as everyone else. We did not build enough growth space. And so that’s what everyone’s doing right now is expanding. If [00:28:00] you can grow it, you could sell. So you just gotta figure out how to grow more. And so expanding in a market right now means expanding your production capability.

[00:28:09] And then

[00:28:09]Robert Beasley: continuing on that conversation on the flip side, having the conversation with investors and letting them know that this is not going to be a immediate return on our cash investment in Texas, this is a longterm play. How does that communication go down? If you’re reading the reports, you’re seeing all these other states that are having booming sales numbers and something like Texas is a longer-term place.

[00:28:28] So how do you communicate information

[00:28:30]Kellan Finney: to your shareholders? So what I’d say about Texas is we have a plan to capture and build market share. It is not a plan to build revenues in the first couple of years and that, you know, what I like to do is I actually like to reference with truly did in Florida, you know, They came out with a big cultivation footprint and they gained a bunch of market share.

[00:28:47] But it wasn’t that profitable. And then that market share volume, turned into profit over time. You know, I want every new Texas patient to be a fluent patient because I need everyone up. And then if we continue to grow that [00:29:00] program over. And that seven or 8,000 patients turns into 200,000 and I have 60% of them now I’m making revenue.

[00:29:07] And so that’s different now in the states where we’re increasing production, which has been the status we’ve been in for the last year. I have to very basically explained to the investors into the market that those plants do not. At all, they’re going to grow as fast as they’re going to grow, regardless of how many dollar bills I wave at them.

[00:29:26] And so the fact that I have investment money, I can’t take that a hundred dollar bill and tease that plan to do anything different than what it’s doing under the pathway that. And so that’s just the reality of farming. Then I have the additional reality of constructing in this environment. So I’ve got to build it first.

[00:29:42] I’ve got to build it in an environment where the supply chain, regardless of what the president just said, the supply chain is severely impacted to get the materials we need in a specialized agriculture industry, which means. Fertigation supplies tables, grow benches, poco to grow and cocoa. All that cocoa comes [00:30:00] from Thailand and over there, which has got to get on a ship.

[00:30:02] And so, you know, I’ve got to beat the supply chain problem. I gotta beat the labor problem that COVID created, those COVID created. And then I’ve got to grow plants that only grow as fast as they want to grow. How do you find the, as far as the size of the facility

[00:30:16]Robert Beasley: to meet demands? Because it sounds like it could be pretty easy to maybe even overproduce

[00:30:20]Kellan Finney: this.

[00:30:21] So overproduction is a spectrum that we’ve all talked about, but no one’s experienced, you know, and what has happened is I talked about these legislative events that bring people to the table. There are more on the horizon. I think in Florida reciprocity, we could increase sales by 35, 40% on a reciprocity.

[00:30:38] Without adding one new port, a patient, because reciprocity would allow all of those people that come to Disney world and to Tampa and to Miami and to Jacksonville which are a lot of folks who have cards in New Jersey and New York and wherever to go to our store. And so big change there. And then we haven’t even talked about adult use, you know, we’re two, four years out and he went to governor election does to [00:31:00] opening up adult use on a 23 million population.

[00:31:03] That has an influx of another 20 million of seasonal. And so every, no everybody comes to Florida to do something. And when, when they come to Florida, we’d love them to have a good time and doing cannabis when it’s recreationally allow. So there is not a production limit problem right now.

[00:31:18] Goldilocks is an interesting phrase. And I get the pleasure of meeting and talking with other CEOs of other MSOE, some of which were much larger than us. And this industry’s biggest problem is scalability. You know, when we first all started as pioneers coming into the business, we had to look to.

[00:31:37] Technology skills and techniques of essentially those who ran illegal grows, but illegal grows had scale limitations. You know, when, when I talked to a quote grower and I use those quotations, often every time I say the word grower, you know, I’ve got to decide, you know, where there’s growing techniques, but those 10 plants behind grandma’s house out.

[00:31:59] Or, you [00:32:00] know, was that an indoor facility and, you know, does it scale? And so I asked that grower every time does it scale because I appreciate that you did that for a hundred plants sometime ago, and you had no market driver getting those stores to feed, you know, it just, it was ready when it was ready.

[00:32:15] And you’ll sell no weed before its time, but I’m running out 10,000 plants a week on a production schedule. Does it work for me? You know, is your special fish eggs stew? Can I run that at 20,000 gallons a day? Or do I run out of. And so scalability is the jump. We all knew that those of us who are running 60, 80,000 square foot canopy spaces, we know that scalability is the killer, but now these guys are running two and 300,000 square foot canopy spaces, and it’s a whole different league.

[00:32:42] They’ve gone into a whole different ball game. They’re not even using the same ball where you, and they’re running into all kinds of scalability problems because the techniques we use are now not. And so it’s a scale jump issue.

[00:32:53]Robert Beasley: We, one has licenses and operations in Florida, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Texas, all Kiki [00:33:00] states.

[00:33:00] But non-art the more mature states such as California, Oregon, Denver. So is there a future state that you have got your eye on

[00:33:08]Kellan Finney: in the roadmap? Yes.

[00:33:11]Robert Beasley: That’s a good answer.

[00:33:17] Yeah, it was worth this swing. Right? I had a couple in my

[00:33:20]Kellan Finney: mind that I was telling you I’m seasoned at talking to investors

[00:33:25]Robert Beasley: proprietary, but I had a couple in my mind. I was wondering if you’d take one of the boxes since you’ve been in the cannabinoid industry, what has been the biggest misconceived?

[00:33:36]Kellan Finney: So scale.

[00:33:37] I just mentioned that I don’t want to talk about it again, but that has been the biggest in the production area, which is the techniques and knowledge just doesn’t scale up the other, is that getting a license gets you somewhere, you know, I, all the time run into people that say I’m really wanting a Florida license and I’m like, no, you don’t.

[00:33:56] I said, that’s a $50 million ticket to that invites you to a [00:34:00] $200 million problem. You know, You know, getting the license, isn’t the touchdown. It is the start of the game. And, and folks just don’t realize that all the works ahead of them you know, I’ve talked to groups that we’re going to get a license and then they’re going to do these things.

[00:34:14] I just get tired listening to the pathway when I think of the pathway that they have ahead of them, but they don’t even know enough to know how tired they should be looking at it. It is a highly regulated industry. That’s very capital intensive to do it at scale that is new and it’s a frontier and, you know, pioneers die on the trail side all the time.

[00:34:33] And you know, we’re the pioneers that are suffering, you know, Sit back a little bit. This comes into this social equity issue that I’m hearing a lot about. Really, if, if we want to have a good social equity movement than it needs to be in the retail licenses, because retail’s pretty easy to come up with speed with a low capital investment.

[00:34:51] I can buy wholesale, sell retail, go get me a store on the corner. Put it on the shelves and make some money it’s, you know, lightly entering into this business. But you know, [00:35:00] what you don’t want to do is burden of. Well, they full vertical license that they just really can’t come up. Really well said before we see that, I mean, Florida’s got multiple licenses that are not being used because they don’t want to make money because it’s, it’s an awful big burden.

[00:35:16] You get that license.

[00:35:17]Robert Beasley: You’re not just running one business. I think you did a really good job of expanding on just the complexity of the challenges of that, because there really can’t be a redundancy of the talent from one to the other. You really need specialized people across the. And finding that with the labor on the capital, it just, the levels of challenges continued the

[00:35:33]Kellan Finney: pilot, culturally, it’s kind of a, an interesting brew.

[00:35:36] If you go down to like our facility, one of our facilities we grow and we produce we process. And so you have a bunch of growers. With dreadlocks and tattoos, engage earrings and a bunch of chemists, all eating lunch together, a wild group to go in and talk to.

[00:35:53]Robert Beasley: You can only imagine diversity though, right?

[00:35:56]Kellan Finney: That’s true. Diversity.

[00:35:59]Robert Beasley:[00:36:00] If you could sum up your experience in a main takeaway or lesson learned to pass onto the next generation, what would it be?

[00:36:07]Kellan Finney: It’s not an easy business. Vertical is the bigger challenge. But it’s still very young and still a frontier business. There are still plenty of opportunities and maybe don’t focus on being the license holder.

[00:36:22] Look at the ancillary industries that are spinning up related to this. You know, everything from packaging to fertigation techniques software. You know, support this industry. If you can’t get in it mainstream, think about how to support you know, what are we doing with our soil? You know, we’re not recycling our soils, we’re throwing them out, you know you know, look for opportunities to enter this industry and an ancillary role.

[00:36:46] If you can’t be in the mainstream role, because it is vital fire prediction,

[00:36:50]Robert Beasley: time, Florida, or Pennsylvania who goes don’t wreck first.

[00:36:57]Kellan Finney: Pennsylvania goes first. It is in the [00:37:00] wave of those Northern states that new York’s flowing over Pennsylvania has the politics to support it. The governor of Florida is not a supporter of the expansion of the program.

[00:37:10] The department of health and Florida has been very lethargic. You know, they should have already issued more licenses. They haven’t worn it as a much more contentious market. Pennsylvania goes first, Florida is 24 or later, depending on the governor race. When you think Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania’s and, you know, next legislative session, it’s already the wind and not the how or why as already being discussed.

[00:37:33] And so I think it’s a votes issue. Pennsylvania is a great market. The consumers, there are, they are very supportive of the market and it’s got good economics, good regulatory concerns. And it’s just, it is ready. That’s why he’s ready to go. Florida might not be.

[00:37:50]Robert Beasley: Well, I mean, I think Pennsylvania is the obvious choice for everything that Robert said, as well as, I mean, they’re going to,

[00:37:56]Kellan Finney: their hand is forced right

[00:37:57]Robert Beasley: with the tri-state area [00:38:00] already having the ball rolled rolling.

[00:38:02] Right. I mean, New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, they’re all going to be legal. Philadelphia is right there in that corner. I mean, I’m not from the east coast, but I’m pretty sure Philadelphia is closed. It’s pretty close right to New York. Close enough. Yeah. So I think their hands, his hand is forest and there’s a lot of big companies looking at Pennsylvania already.

[00:38:18] You know what I mean? I think that that’s always a sign that they know something the general population probably isn’t aware of when you see multiple MSOE purchasing licenses and

[00:38:27]Kellan Finney: facilities in the medical market and the state. So that’s my 2 cents. What are

[00:38:31]Robert Beasley: your thoughts, Brian? Robert, do you want to.

[00:38:34]Kellan Finney: Well, I was going to say that, you know, as an operator in multiple states, and one of the things that’s recently come to me is I get a lot of questions from staff positions in these states that are drafting their legislation. Virginia, North Carolina, Alabama, fucked up all of the legislative word makers there because they knew I was involved in the drafting of the legislation in Florida.

[00:38:53] So I have that, I have that background and they asked me this one question every time, what states should we look to to model after. [00:39:00] Pennsylvania’s always on my list, the way they segregated their zones for licensing, for retail, without allowed an even distribution, the way they try traded out the growth, they didn’t do it.

[00:39:11] Perfect. But they did it right. And right enough to get them ready for rep. And so it was just a good regulatory. Why don’t

[00:39:19]Robert Beasley: you think other states just follow models that are successful, that are done well versus just kind of taking a year and a half, two years to figure it out on their own.

[00:39:29]Kellan Finney: When I’m in Alabama’s legislative discussion, I’m trying to decide what the difference between an agriculture business and a farm business.

[00:39:39] And, you know, it’s the people that are in agriculture related business that sell fertilizer that really want to be eligible for the license. And so it’s all,

[00:39:47]Robert Beasley: yeah. Something I’ll never be able to actually understand which I’m I’m wonder if anyone actually does. It seems more complicated. Every single. So Robert, for those who want to get in touch, they want to learn more about fluent and your company, where

[00:39:57]Kellan Finney: can they learn more?

[00:39:58] So we, a website is get [00:40:00] fluid.com. We have a investor page and a Q and a page there. You can send a Sunday question. Believe it or not the investor question link. I’m copied on every one of them. And I try to distribute them in a way that gets a good response. We trade on the Canadian exchange under the ticker T I U.

[00:40:17] The parent company is, can source them. And that is the publicly traded company. T I U M it is also co listed on the OTC Q X, which is the U S exchange. And so get out there and buy some stock if you believe in what we’re doing and and we hope to continue the upward trends. We’re on.

[00:40:33]Robert Beasley: Awesome. Thank you so much for your time, Robert.

[00:40:35] We [00:40:35]Kellan Finney: appreciate it. All right. Thank you. Have a great day.

Editors’ Note: This is the transcript version of the podcast. Please note that due to time and audio constraints, transcription may not be perfect. We encourage you to listen to the podcast, embedded below if you need any clarification. We hope you enjoy!

Explore the world of cannabis extraction with a global leader that is vertically integrated and made in America in this episode.

MACH Technologies is focused on developing cutting edge technologies, processes, and equipment for botanical extraction. Their engineered systems are designed with safety, efficiencies, throughput, and ease of use in mind. Our team of mechanical, electrical, controls, and chemical engineers ensure our equipment and processing systems are the latest technology, and we are driven by innovation.

Featured in Today’s Episode:

• Cutting edge botanical extraction
• Innovative cannabis processing
• Leading customers to success based on their goals

If you are Curious about the cannabis industry, but nervous that you’ll get lost in the haze, then stream The Dime podcast where hosts Bryan Fields and Kellan Finney break down the cannabis industry with the one’s building the future.

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[00:00:00]Bryan Fields: This is the dime, dive into the cannabis and hemp industry through trends, insights, predictions, and tangents.

[00:00:11] What’s up guys. Welcome back to another episode of the dime I’m Brian Fields. And with me as always is my right-hand man Kellen Finney. And this week we’ve got a very special guest Rob , president of mock technologies.

[00:00:22] Rob, thanks for taking the time. How are you doing today?

[00:00:25]Rob Wirtz: I’m doing great. Thanks for having me guys. I’m excited to be on. So I appreciate it.

[00:00:29]Bryan Fields: Kellan, how are you doing?

[00:00:30]Kellan Finney: Doing really well? You know, it’s finally that. Someone from the west coast and a bunch of east coast people that in the conversation, I feel like Michigan’s a little more west than the other people we’ve talked to.

[00:00:40] So I’m going to go with it. How are you doing Brian?

[00:00:42]Bryan Fields: I’m doing well. I appreciate you asking. I think Michigan’s kind of like right in that central line and we can kind of dive into some of those concepts a little bit. So, Rob, I appreciate you taking the time. I’m excited to kind of dive into some mock technology and some of the benefits.

[00:00:55] So for our listeners that are unfamiliar, can you share a little bit about the company[00:01:00]

[00:01:00]Rob Wirtz: Yeah, so great. So MACH technologies were really in a specialized equipment and technology manufacturer focused on the hemp and cannabis space. So what’s unique about MACH is we design and manufacture all of our equipment and technologies in house in Michigan.

[00:01:13] Everything’s made in the us. We’re very prideful of that. And we have a really good, unique suite of technologies around ethanol based extraction around a hydrocarbon extraction around solventless extraction. So we try to tackle all these things. Potential solvents and methods of extraction, do everything in house.

[00:01:31] So we can provide really the customer, what they want based on which route they want to go. And then on top of that are kind of in our core is all about service and making sure we can do everything we can to keep our customers successful. So in a nutshell, that’s. A lot

[00:01:46]Bryan Fields: of it. So when a customer comes to you and they they’re interested in kind of participating in the cannabinoid experience, so they usually have a technology in mind, or is it kind of a back and forth and understanding what their end point is?

[00:01:57] And then working backwards,

[00:01:59]Rob Wirtz: it’s kind of [00:02:00] a mixed bag. I would say some people who are very familiar, common, they know exactly what they want. We have other customers who come and have the initial product that they say here. This is what I need, but we always everything in our sales cycle, we try to take a.

[00:02:15] Like a consultative approach to us. So we try to back into exactly, you know, how did you get to that? Where do you start? Where do you want to be in a year, three years, five years. And a lot of the times we figured we kind of help guide them a little bit to try to make it. So they’re not spending too much capital up front.

[00:02:30] They’re getting the right equipment to getting the right technology. For the markets they want to play in and the compliance they want to follow. So it’s kind of a loaded question, but some people know exactly what they want. Some people think they know we have to guide them and some people say, I want to get in.

[00:02:44] I have no idea where to start lay it on me. And I know that’s your wheelhouse jumping

[00:02:49]Bryan Fields: from there.

[00:02:49]Kellan Finney: Yeah. I mean, I think that that’s the full spectrum and a lot of times people don’t, they just want to get in the industry. I always ask them to kind of do a little soul searching and be [00:03:00] like, well, what do you want to make?

[00:03:01] Right? Because each different extraction technology that Rob just mentioned creates a different product and behaves different there’s different regulations required for each one. There’s different science on how each one’s functions. So they’re very different beasts. They all may concentrate the chemicals from the plant, but they all do it in slightly different.

[00:03:22] So I think, I think that’s a good answer.

[00:03:24]Rob Wirtz: Let’s

[00:03:24]Bryan Fields: talk about processing safety. Obviously people are diving in there’s some inexperienced operators. Is there different, unique aspects that MOC brings to the table in order to kinda provide that safety level for operators?

[00:03:37]Rob Wirtz: Yeah, for sure. Safety is really big.

[00:03:39] It’s kind of one of those. You know, our main pillars that we focused on, that we saw, again, gaps in industry that we thought we could help fill, because, you know, with our experience coming from a lot of other, very highly regulated markets, you know, safety has been a key for these markets that have been around for 50, 60 years, that in new markets, like.

[00:03:58] They can be, you [00:04:00] know, not at the top of mind to people. So when we designed all of our equipment, we designed it all around, you know, safety and automation is a big thing that plays into that. And we use basically very nice operator, touchscreen control systems, and we have where you all 5 0 8 a panel shop for control systems.

[00:04:17] We use all you all listed electronics. We’re an ASMs certified. I take manufacturer. So we take all of these things. We build them all into automation. We put redundancies in there and basically we try to take out the opportunity to let operators forget, to do some tasks that we’ll over pressurize discharge on the floor overflow tanks.

[00:04:37] Let’s take out those air points to really increase the safety aspect of the operation of the equipment. So that’s very, very important. I,

[00:04:45]Kellan Finney: I want to go back to one thing you said, you just mentioned a lot of acronyms. Do you want to, could you elaborate for our listeners on like what UL is and ASM and all these acronyms that you just threw out there for those who, who aren’t fully educated on what those acronyms

[00:04:59]Rob Wirtz:[00:05:00] mean?

[00:05:00] Yes. So UL is basically, it’s a regulatory body that really controls electronics. So it’s underwriters laboratory. There’s a number of. What they’re called NRT Al saw nationally recognized testing laboratories that go into that. It can be TAC, which is ETL their CSA. So there’s a group of these that basically regulate and say, the components that are basically listed in certified are reviewed by these NRT ALS and they’re certified to be safe for use for the environment.

[00:05:29] So if it’s a class, one division, one environment, a class, one division, two environment, these are basically one step above a third-party peer review to say. NRTs I reviewed these and these are safety using these environments. So they’re the top of the line for electronics that are used in electronics are very important in these environments, obviously, because they have to be classified correctly because wood flammable, vapors, or chemicals, you know, there’s always risk of something igniting, which we can dive into the ventilation requirements and the safety on that.

[00:05:59] So that’s that. And [00:06:00] then the SME, basically it’s a pressure vessel certification. So again, it’s another outside body that comes in certifies our welders and our company to say, we can make pressure vessels and we can stamp them. And we have an SME use stamp that basically says the calculations the tanks have been reviewed, which has all the wall thicknesses, all the weld types and characteristics of the well.

[00:06:22] I think you get full penetration welds to make sure that these are safe vessels that are really fit for use for the application. They’re going

[00:06:30]Bryan Fields: these certifications though. Are they necessary to operate in today’s cannabinoid industry?

[00:06:36]Rob Wirtz: So AFME absolutely is so on ASMC that really falls into the hydrocarbon side and the current regulations are kind of split there.

[00:06:45] The market goes off of anything that’s bigger than a six inch diameter vessel has to be a SME certified. That is not the case for all the operators out there. I will tell you that, but they have a true certified system. And if you have it, third-party peer reviewed. That is one of the [00:07:00] things that will absolutely make you pass or.

[00:07:03] And that’s done either from an equipment standpoint before it’s shipped or if there’s onsite technical inspections. So that’s very, very, very important. And again, the other side of it, the UL side or the NRQL listing side of electronics, again, I would say that is absolutely critical and required. Is it always done again?

[00:07:22] The answer is no, but as the market continues to get more regulated and I think as people become knowledgeable on the. ’cause a lot of, I think jurisdictions don’t really know what they’re looking for. Don’t know the questions to ask yet, as that builds up and people become more knowledgeable. I think we’re going to see a big shift of people who aren’t playing in that regulated market.

[00:07:43] Are you going to get pushed out of the market or. And to

[00:07:46]Bryan Fields: kind of continue on that path cause we’ve had some of these challenging conversations. So it’s really great to hear you reiterate that for our listeners. And more specifically, some of the prospects we spoken with say, they take a more cost effective approach where they get a piece of [00:08:00] equipment that doesn’t have these certifications and regulations instilled in it.

[00:08:03] How hard would it be in order to let’s say, upgrade their equipment? Is that even a possibility to go from one of these pieces of equipment that doesn’t have these certifications?

[00:08:13]Rob Wirtz: Yeah. So when I guess, great question. When you say upgrade, I kind of take that as replace in our sense, because we do do that right now.

[00:08:20] A lot. Honestly, we have customers call us and say, we bought X, Y, and Z either doesn’t work or we try to get it certified. And the certifying body said, there’s no way we’re going to let you use it. So the problem is, is as typically our customers will try to say X amount of money there spend 30,000 on this piece versus ours being 60.

[00:08:40] Cause it’s 30,000 last everybody’s, you know, driven by capital, which I understand, but we always try to explain to people, you know, the purchase gets a lot more expensive when you’re taking that $30,000 piece of equipment and tossing it in the dumpster. And then spending the original money. So if you’re going to be a serious player in the market, we always advise people, you know, [00:09:00] take a serious approach to it, level up from a compliance standpoint.

[00:09:03] And if your competitors, aren’t the, you know, they’re not going to be in the market. Long-term in my opinion. So that’s the approach we try to take.

[00:09:12]Bryan Fields: I think that’s so important. Kellen. I want you to kind of shed some light on that because we spoke about have conversations and the story about the guy who referenced is expensive paperweight.

[00:09:21] So Kellen kind of dive in there.

[00:09:22]Kellan Finney: I have one funny story about UL certification. So like back in the day, when I was an operator, we were buying heating mammals to heat up some round bottom. And brown bottom flask Keating, mantles art, super cheap. You can get like the ones from China and they’re still semi expensive.

[00:09:37] And I had a procurement guy who found a really screaming deal on Alibaba for one out of India. And so I was like, why not save a couple hundred dollars? So we ordered. And like, I literally turned it on when we got it and it caught fire. It was like, can you sell something that catches fire when you plug it in?

[00:09:56] And it’s because it they’re just manufacturing these things without [00:10:00] any certification and regulations, it turns out that it’s like hard to take someone’s word from across the world that like, no, it’ll be safe. Just plug it in and turn it on. You know what I mean? And so municipalities don’t take your guys’ word, right?

[00:10:11] Rob. That’s why you have. These third party facility or companies come in and, and stamp it because they’re just not going to be like your day. Yeah. It’s Rob. We know Rob will take this word that everything was done. Right. They have to have it right.

[00:10:22]Rob Wirtz: No, for sure. And I think that, I think honestly, the manufacturers in this space should think of it more from, you know, outside of, just on top of the municipalities that are going to require it.

[00:10:33] But honestly, to make sure that. Equipment manufacturers don’t miss something. It’s always good to have another set of eyes and something. So for your own due diligence and liability, I think it’s super important. And it’s funny, you mentioned that story about that heating mantle, because I don’t know if you guys heard the other one in this space.

[00:10:48] And I was talking about ASMU pressure vessels that a lot of these vessels were coming from overseas and having Assamese stamps. And it came out of the woodwork that the company who were stamping and were stamping them with fake [00:11:00] SME stamps. And they actually. Pressure vessels. So it’s crazy. The stuff you see in the space for people who are saving Bibles, it’s counterproductive to what you’re doing.

[00:11:10] I mean, the risking safety and the product just crazy. And like you said

[00:11:13]Bryan Fields: before, it’s one of those where they spend, let’s say the 30,000 up front, which will likely be on the very, very low end. And ultimately have to put that into the closet as an expensive paper rate, as they double down on an equipment purchase, which is obviously something.

[00:11:27] Operators don’t ever want to do to have a double investment on capital equipment. It’s just never a good route to take. So. When you’re having these conversations and they’re kind of like hitting their head up against the wall about the cost to purchase one of these equipments. And they’re wondering about the investment of the upfront opportunity.

[00:11:43] Obviously being highly regulated is so important and telling them the future of where to go. Is there a specific fact or statistic that you share with them to let them know. This is the direction the industry is going. And these are investments for the long-term approach.

[00:11:56]Rob Wirtz: We try to be very transparent with our customers, to be honest, you know, we don’t [00:12:00] have, you know, a crystal ball that says where it’s going, but we basically share our experience in other industries that came up in a similar path.

[00:12:06] And in my mind, you know, honestly new emerging industries follow kind of a same path all the time. And I think it’s very clear to everybody when you talk to them. You never see stuff that’s coming out, that stuff is becoming less regulator or less compliant in this space. They’re always stepping up the bar.

[00:12:24] I mean, even in the NSPA codes and stuff like that, they’re adding more stuff that deals just with extraction. So people are starting to pay attention to it. And if you don’t buy the most compliant you can get at this point, you know, that is the best shot you’re going to have. And making sure you future proof yourself on compliance.

[00:12:42] It’s not guaranteed. Buying the most compliant stock today is the best shot you have on. Future compliant in the future.

[00:12:49]Bryan Fields: So, perfect.

[00:12:50]Kellan Finney: Quote right there. Yeah. That’s the future proofing it. I mean, that’s used so, so readily. I mean, if you’re not thinking about where the industry is going to be from a manufacturing perspective in 10 years, [00:13:00] then I don’t think you’re building a company for the longterm

[00:13:02]Rob Wirtz: personally.

[00:13:03] No, I agree with you.

[00:13:04]Bryan Fields: So let’s talk about some automation features. Is there a specific technology integrated into the equipment? Can you share a little bit more about

[00:13:11]Rob Wirtz: that? Yeah. So our flagship series lets if we touched, like, let’s say on the ethanol side or flagship series, which is our EES products, there they’re fully automated ethanol extraction system.

[00:13:21] So typical labs that require. A handful of operators and one guys, you know, managing the ethanol chilling system and other guys doing extraction. Now, the guys, you know, overseeing, let’s say the recovery or the Decar process, and for each of these processes, they’re basically manually transferring solvent into the extraction vessel.

[00:13:41] Operating each stage independently, they’re discharging it out. There’s operator error, there’s labor and there’s inefficiencies there. I mean, not only from a bottleneck standpoint, but I always talk to people about operational bottlenecks. Even if you have a chilling system and extraction system recovery system, all size for the cracked throughput, [00:14:00] the operators can introduce bottlenecks because they’re basically transferring fluids or turning them on and off at the wrong time.

[00:14:05] So you do have inherent operational bottlenecks. What’s awesome about our technology. Everything is controlled by one central control system. The entire system is designed and manufactured to work together as one complete unit. So to operate our system, you have a single operator. He literally puts the biomass sense.

[00:14:23] Lacks the recipe hit start. It does the automatic ethanol chilling to the right temperature and level based on the recipe at discharge that it performs a whole extraction process. Automatically pumps it out, puts it through filtration, puts it in the recovery process. The recovery process automatically turns on and off throughout the day automatically discharges the oil over to the decarb automatically runs the Decar process, transfers the, solve it back to the front end.

[00:14:49] So the whole process is really truly automated and it’s got level controls, temperature controls, pressure controls, and it’s all recipe driven. So it makes it super easy to act. [00:15:00] And the consistency of really the output product in there ensures that the recipe or the parameters that for every batch. And really show that from a compliance standpoint, the system automatically generates a PDF report at the end of each day, saves on the computer.

[00:15:16] So you can pick any day say, I want to see what bashes we ran, what recipe parameters were ran, what the machine actually did. And you can prove that your product is ran in a consistent format all the time.

[00:15:28]Kellan Finney: What record that record is used for standard manufacturing. What acronym is the kind of record work with as a CGM?

[00:15:36]Rob Wirtz: Yeah, so it’s, you know, CGMP EU GMP and it’s really just from a, from a, an overall compliance standpoint. So for basically for CGMP EU GMP, everything’s about manufacturing processes, repeatable making sure that your process is the same every time. And while you can achieve that with manually operated processes, the process control there, and the documentation can [00:16:00] become overwhelming.

[00:16:01] Should I say? And I think as the market continues to mature and things continue to move more toward like a pharmaceutical style manufacturing operation, those are going to be paramount in people’s peoples. I couldn’t agree more.

[00:16:14]Bryan Fields: I think that’s so important to kind of shed more light on because as these small organizations try to scale and they have to go from, let’s say one key employee to multiple key employees, if that key employee is sick that day, and he usually does a different tweaking to the SOP.

[00:16:28] I mean, now the end product is going to be slightly different. So when you’ve automated the entire. You can adhere to really, really strict QA QC guidelines, and then make sure that if things do go wrong, you’ve got a detailed record on going back and exactly identifying the parameters that, that went wrong.

[00:16:43] And I think that’s so critical. And once again, I’ll ask this question, even though the answer is very clear, is CGMP EU GMP necessary now, or necessarily more in the future?

[00:16:53]Rob Wirtz: I think it’s necessary now. I do. I think the major players are adhering to that now, and that is our goal. So I think. [00:17:00] Very important.

[00:17:00] Now I think it’s 100% absolutely necessary in the future. I mean, I, I kind of give, talk to people about, you know, when we’re talking about a pharmaceutical side, I, you know, kind of give them the, the story of, you know, there’s no way pharmaceutical companies are having people dose their ingredients and the capsules using a little shovel and pouring it in, you know, that is not the route.

[00:17:23] So it’s, you know, we have to think along those lines, Sure they could do it, but that is not the route. That is, that is unacceptable. So

[00:17:31]Kellan Finney: that’s such a good analogy.

[00:17:33]Bryan Fields: The visible, like, thinking about like, actually that experience is so alarming in the same regard and actually what happens in it. Yeah. And what happens in our space too, from an end product, of course, there’s incandescent.

[00:17:43] There’s human error continually throughout the process, which is always causing issues. So Kaelin kind of expand on that CGMP EU GMP, obviously it’s really, really strict to get there, but it’s one of those where exactly like Rob saying is the direction of where the industry’s likely.

[00:17:57]Kellan Finney: Yeah, no. And I think Rob touched on all of it.

[00:17:59] And the only [00:18:00] thing that I would want to try to point out as well would be it’s definitely needed now, because if you’re trying to build a brand around a specific product, it’s paramount that. Behaves the same. Every time you go to kind of display it in front of the consumer, right? Whether you’re in California or Colorado, or hopefully, maybe one day New York, if they ever decide to sell something you like that little shot, Ryan

[00:18:30]Bryan Fields: definitely, definitely just ruin his day.

[00:18:37]Kellan Finney: I mean, it really, really is important for. Building a brand that people will come back to. Right. If they like this specific product, because it gives them this experience. And I mean, we’re talking about. Derivative product. So it’s a chemical chemical profile, if you will. And we could get into entourage effects and all of these other things that research scientists are studying right now and figuring all [00:19:00] that stuff out for us.

[00:19:00] But if you want to generate a chemical that creates the same experience, time and time again, it’s going to have to have the exact same concentration of chemicals. And the only way to do that is to maintain consistency. Through automation, in my opinion, right? Because that’s, that’s the only way that pharmaceuticals have been able to facilitate the exact same product every time.

[00:19:21] I mean, you go buy ibuprofen in California and you buy ibuprofen and France, identical molecules and almost identical recipes. And that’s only made possible because the pharmaceutical companies are following CGMP and EU GMP guidelines. To ensure that their processes are the same every single time. So that, I mean, I think that’s the only main point I want to make.

[00:19:41] As far as CGMP goes, it’s not just to be a taxing event for operators. It’s, it’s meant to help operators monitor their process so that they can ensure trust in the consumers as.

[00:19:55]Rob Wirtz: Yeah, I was going to say for sure. I agree that I was going to just, you, you touched on it right at the end there just about, [00:20:00] I mean, the process is really just to ensure the safety of the product for the consumers.

[00:20:05] You know,

[00:20:06]Kellan Finney: safety is huge part of that as well,

[00:20:07]Bryan Fields: also to kind of expand on that when you pick up a product, right? And you have that type of difference, you start to have this off putting experience in wondering, you know, what was

[00:20:16]Rob Wirtz: the

[00:20:17]Bryan Fields: reasoning behind that? And especially with, with all the legacy markets and all these other products out there.

[00:20:22] So sometimes people kind of wonder. If there is enough regulations going on and what else is needed in the space. So I agree a hundred percent that it’s so important from an end consumer standpoint, to have a consistent, safe product so that they can avoid some of these stigmas that have played this injury.

[00:20:37] With some of the numerous stigmas that have played synergy for a really long time.

[00:20:41]Rob Wirtz: For sure agree.

[00:20:43]Bryan Fields: Let’s stay with the consumers when they’re making a selection of a product in a dispensary. Do you think it’s clear for them to understand the differences in the products that are ethanol attracted or BHO extracted?

[00:20:55]Rob Wirtz: You know, I think it depends on the level of the consumer. I think if the consumer understands. [00:21:00] The extraction process and knows basically which products are typically processed, let’s say through BHO which unique or more kind of sewer products that are made there, then they will understand that. I think just first time consumer off the street, walking in, I’m sure they probably don’t know, honestly, that there’s even BHL or ethanol or any of these extraction methods, judges looking at.

[00:21:23] And probably taking the advice of, let’s say the, the bud tender whoever’s there at that dispensary up. Here’s what I’m looking for. Here’s kind of the problem. I want it to solve. What do you kind of suggest? And they’re probably go through the process of how, how do you want to actually use that, that concentrate?

[00:21:39] I think it depends on the user’s level of knowledge within the space, you know, and I would

[00:21:44]Kellan Finney: even go further and say probably 80% of consumers out there in the cannabis world. Couldn’t tell you. Ethanol is, or what VHL really even means from an acronym perspective. Even if you said butane, they’d be like, oh, like let’s say my life.

[00:21:59] Right. Like [00:22:00] they don’t understand the chemical differences in these solvents, let alone what the, those chemical characteristics from a solvent perspective mean. As far as the act of chemicals you’re pulling out of the plant, I mean, operators would love to plant their flag and they will all die on those.

[00:22:16] Right. Like the operators will die if you have a really robust or like passionate VHL operator, like he will die on that hill about how BHL is better. And the same goes for ethanol and CO2, Damien, you know what I mean? Like they, they be prominent. They fall in love with it. And there’s little characteristics that they.

[00:22:34] Kind of hold onto and they, they literally plant their flag and they’re like, no, this is better for XYZ. And they all have those kind of buzzwords, if you will, in terms of what, why they believe one product is better than the other.

[00:22:46]Rob Wirtz: But I agree with you. I think there is one thing that I, you know, I hope in the future, the industry gets better at it.

[00:22:52] You know, you read a lot of articles, you see a lot of stuff. And it seems like companies who manufacture one technology or one solvent [00:23:00] extraction technology are bashing the other ones. And usually there’s not a lot of, I guess, truth through it. I mean, like, you always hear people, we get it all the time of somebody says, you know, I want CO2.

[00:23:11] Solventless. They said you don’t want to use ethanol and the product. And then we asked them, well, are you going to winterize the product? You’re gonna make a distillate. Yeah, we are. Then while you’re introducing a solvent at that point, they say, well, no, they, they, you know, I heard it’s different. It’s it’s not the same.

[00:23:23] And it’s incorrect information being put out there. So I think people are getting. Let us stray a little bit. And I think it’s, it’s a little bit, you know, shame on the manufacturers that they’re doing that again, to promote their own product in some aspect, rather than kind of give truthful information out there.

[00:23:39] That’s more realistic. So people can really understand the different processes. What the difference is between them, you know, rather than I guess, bash the ones back and

[00:23:48]Kellan Finney: forth. I couldn’t agree more. I mean, when I was an operator, I read as many different solvents as I could, because I was thinking diversification of products.

[00:23:55] You’re going to get more consumers and you’re going to build a stronger business.

[00:23:59]Bryan Fields: Yup. The [00:24:00] classic same, same.

[00:24:01]Kellan Finney: Same same but different. Yeah. Oh, that’s a good one.

[00:24:06]Bryan Fields: So Kellen kinda expand on that for our listeners who are unfamiliar with BHO versus ethanol versus CO2 at the end product, can you kind of give them like a real simplified version of what the differences would be from an end product stamp?

[00:24:17]Kellan Finney: Yeah. I mean, it’s kind of evolved a lot over the last five or six years, right? Significantly, if you will. When I first got into the industry distal, it really wasn’t a thing. And people were selling CO2 oil as like winterized oil is what it was called. It’s called Amber at the time. And they were just putting that into vape pens and selling vape pens.

[00:24:38] And that’s where. The majority of CO2 oil kind of found its place. And then ethanol wasn’t even really on the scene yet hydrocarbon, DHL, propane, or butane and propane kind of mixtures as to all these been the main market for that has always been like your heavy user, your dabber, if you will. And they are going to be the, one of the more robust.[00:25:00]

[00:25:00] Consumers, in my opinion, like they’re the consumer, that’s showing up every single week and buying a gram every single week, if not more, more often, but they’re not going to be buying massive quantities and you’re not going to have this, this mass adoption that we were seeing with, with like vape pens, where the soccer mom feels more comfortable with a vape pen in her hand.

[00:25:20] Taking a dab because the dab is a very interesting way to consume. I mean, anytime you got, let’s just, we just want to touch on that real quick. Like anytime you bust out a torch, like a glass rig and you look at someone and you’re like, no, it’s gonna be fine. Like totally fine. Like. You’re going to be looked at with some questions, for sure.

[00:25:42] Like, there’s going to be some people that are not the most comfortable with consuming something with those tools involved, if you will. But yeah. At the end of the day, hydrocarbon has been around for ever. And I think, I don’t think it’s going anywhere because. It does create some of the most [00:26:00] representative chemical profiles of the actual plant itself.

[00:26:04] If you just look at some of the, the scientific characteristics of how a hydrocarbon extraction is executed, it’s lower temperature. Lower pressures and CO2 the hydro hydrocarbon under those parameters is a very, very, very good solvent. And so it does a great job of capturing almost the entire Fido chemical profile of a cannabis plant.

[00:26:28] So you’re going to get some of the most accurate. Chemical profiles from a concentrate to flower perspective. That’s unadultered in hydrocarbon extraction and with ethanol, in my opinion, I think ethanol is the easiest to scale, right? So I think that ethanol automation and scaling it into like true industrial processes.

[00:26:50] R where ethanol purposes. And I think that that’s, that’s really good for lowering the cost of all of these other products, right? Like that chemical profile that’s [00:27:00] consumed through a DOB in a concentrated form. Isn’t something that’s the best suited for creating the other, all the other derivative products like topicals and edibles and textures.

[00:27:12] And I think that that’s where ethanol kind of fix it personally. I mean, Rob, what is your take on

[00:27:16]Rob Wirtz: all of this? No, I, I, a hundred percent agree with the, I mean, any, any time we talked to somebody. You know, what part of the market are you trying to go after? They’re trying to make unique products, obviously by resin shatters those types of products we say, yep.

[00:27:30] BHO is the way to go. If they’re talking about, I want to process a thousand pounds a day, I want to make bulk distillate. We’re going to sell it to market. We’re going to. You know, gummies and vapes and these other items, we say, well, you know, ethanol wins every day of the week there. So I think it depends on what they, what product they want to make.

[00:27:48] And that’s kind of where we try to take our approach to really understand their business and really. Underlying aspects of why they want to make those products. So it’s not just the first product they wrote about why they really want to make [00:28:00] those and really what drives them to their business decisions.

[00:28:02] So we can help guide them to make sure they’re making the right decisions. But I agree for sure. I think every solvent has its place. So I, I, I never take the approach of it’s this and all the other ones are horrible. Well, what are you trying to make? And here’s the actual best solution for that product?

[00:28:19]Kellan Finney: I was a part of a company that was heavily invested in CO2 and like, okay. Yeah, CO2 the product was had its place in the market, but like once I executed that process, I had biomass. That’s still. Active cannabinoids in them. And that’s why we ended up going towards ethanol. So like there’s a place to have both, or even all three different extraction systems in one facility, so that like you do this with it, and then the biomass goes over so you can capture more of the cannabinoids out of it.

[00:28:43] And is that something that you guys kind of see becoming more common

[00:28:47]Rob Wirtz: in the. It is. So I think it’s very common. I think it’s going to be continue to get more common, the most common aspect I typically see, I typically see solventless tricombs separation equipment, hydrocarbon equipment, and then [00:29:00] AF and all equipment.

[00:29:00] I typically see those three processes in larger facilities as the three most common as a package that I see. So you

[00:29:09]Kellan Finney: mentioned solventless, we haven’t really touched on that. You want to kind of go into some of the guys, you guys are solving with technology and maybe elaborate

[00:29:14]Rob Wirtz: a little more on. Yeah. So we have, we have a couple of different solventless technologies.

[00:29:18] The first one I mentioned, that’s more common. That’s kind of been out there in the industry is, you know, let’s call it ice water bubble has Tricom separation equipment, which is a more historical product that’s been out there. There’s some unique nuances that we have in our. For that type of equipment that we can offer people.

[00:29:34] But the other side of the solventless thing that we think has a huge place in the market is our solventless terpene extraction equipment. Because for people who really want to keep cannabis derived, turpines typically in an ethanol process. As you process it through, you hit it with solve it and you put it through recovery.

[00:29:50] And then if you put it through distillation, you strip those TURPs out. You’re degrading them throughout that whole process. So there’s a very, very, very valuable part of that plan. And I think [00:30:00] as research continues to go down, you mentioned the entourage. And basically the combination of these compounds together, I think more and more stuff is going to come to light that all of these things, it’s not just, you know, the THC level in the oil that people want.

[00:30:16] It’s all these other turpines and compounds that go together to create this full experience where the product. And I think people who really want that if they have good material and they have the turpines. Our solution is amazing because it pulls them out. Doesn’t decarb. It doesn’t disturb the, any of that cannabinoids.

[00:30:35] So then you can put those through a typical extraction process and you have two extremely valuable streams that you can either keep separate, or you can put back together. And you’re actually using cannabis drive. Turpines rather than turpines that come from other botanical plants that aren’t cannabis derived.

[00:30:51] So there’s a whole bunch of stuff that’s going on in the market that I think is going to continue to make. An extremely, extremely valuable process for [00:31:00] people going forward.

[00:31:02]Bryan Fields: Yeah, that’s perfectly said. So I want to switch gears slightly. Rob, what is one concept about extraction that operators or end consumers would be surprised or.

[00:31:12] To

[00:31:12]Rob Wirtz: learn. Honestly, I think consumers would probably be shocked to learn if they understood the level of operator innovation and traditional processes. To be honest, I think they would be very shocked to learn, to watch somebody operate a BHO machine because there’s a lot that goes into it a lot. They have to monitor a lot of valves are turning and there’s a lot of operator intervention in running that equipment.

[00:31:34] I think people probably, you know, blow by the actual work that goes into the back end of these products. I think

[00:31:41]Bryan Fields: horrified might be like a

[00:31:43]Rob Wirtz: better way to scout. I’m trying to be maybe a little more politically,

[00:31:47]Bryan Fields: correct? Yeah, no, you’re, you’re absolutely. You’re absolutely correct. And I’m glad you brought that up because it’s one that, I mean, even I take for granted to think about, you know, how, how many different variables could going on, but, you know, speaking with individuals like yourself and, and telling [00:32:00] continually has just made me.

[00:32:01] Surprised for sure to learn. And I’m glad that you shared that. Are we

[00:32:05]Kellan Finney: going to take a quick moment and just show some respect to all the operators out there that are making the products back there in those rooms, pulling all those valves because we appreciate the

[00:32:15]Rob Wirtz: job it is. And you know, there’s magic back there

[00:32:20]Kellan Finney: playing with explosive gases and

[00:32:22]Rob Wirtz: just cold, passionate about it.

[00:32:25] Isolated veins. And that’s one thing that’s funny that you talk about that. Cause we get that question sometimes and people are saying, well, we don’t want to automate the process because you’re taking away our job. You’re taking away our expertise and you know, my always my response to all it is, no, I’m not, I’m not trying to do any of that.

[00:32:42] I’m trying to make the process more repeatable, more consistent. And I want you to be able to use your expertise, to have more value, add to the company you’re working for, to your company, to whatever it might be. So your value can be better than you. And somewhere else, rather than monitoring the process that we can [00:33:00] automate based on your recipe, in your expertise, what you love, let’s simplify, automate that process.

[00:33:05] Use your knowledge and your skill and your time on other value adds in the organization,

[00:33:10]Kellan Finney: separate R and D from production. I think something that is so hard for a lot of operators to do, they just get so attached and they’re like, well, if I tweak it this little time, it’s like, no, we are running this material.

[00:33:21] Because of how we did it last time. So like, you can figure out a new way to do it next time we do this, for sure.

[00:33:28]Bryan Fields: Since you’ve been in the cannabinoid industry, what has been the biggest misconception?

[00:33:32]Rob Wirtz: You know, I don’t think it’s a misconception anymore, but I will say, I think probably like most people, when you enter the space, I think there was a lot of incorrect knowledge.

[00:33:40] People are becoming more comfortable with the space, but I think, I think there was a big misconception about between CBD and THC, to be honest with consumers. And I think there was a big misconception about kind of the legality of THC and the uncomfortableness of people working on products to deal with that really well said

[00:33:59]Bryan Fields: before we do [00:34:00] predictions, we ask all of our guests, if you could sum up your experience in a main takeaway or lesson learned to pass onto the next generation, what would.

[00:34:08]Rob Wirtz: Gosh in this space, you know, it’s honestly, this space has been a wild ride. It’s getting so quickly. It’s crazy. I guess my experiences don’t ever take your foot off the gas. Always make sure you’re looking forward to what is next from a compliance from a regulatory. How can you help drive the industry forward rather than try to milk off what’s there above it.

[00:34:33]Bryan Fields: All right. Prediction time Robins 2025. What has changed with extraction

[00:34:40]Rob Wirtz: technology 20 twenty-five? I think the manual intervention will be almost eliminated. I think the extraction technology will be in all the major players is going to be more of a clean room environment. It’s going to be more CGMP driven.

[00:34:55] Honestly, I think there’s going to be like, he kind of said before, I think it’s the R and D [00:35:00] is going to be out. It’s going to be more production. And I think that’s going to be split into two different sectors. I think there’s going to be production facilities that produce very repeatable products. I think there’s going to be R and D facilities to try to develop what’s next for products.

[00:35:13]Kellan Finney: I mean, I couldn’t agree more. I think automation is coming faster than people realized. And I think that the methods that more established manufacturing industries have employed to move themselves forward, like pharma oil and gas, food, and Bev. I think that they will find their way into cannabis manufacturing quicker than anyone anticipates.

[00:35:33] And we’re going to see. Almost fully automated, really, really, really finite, like really heavily controlled extraction processes that are generating. Products that are predictable and consistent. So, I mean, it’s kind of the same thing Rob said, but I like, you know, if you believe it, like, why not just keep pouring it on top?

[00:35:53] What do you think,

[00:35:53]Rob Wirtz: Ryan? One thing just on top of that, that you mentioned that I like is, you know, I always tell people, cause people are. Afraid [00:36:00] of, you know, the big food and bag companies coming in, pharmaceuticals companies coming in. And I agree, I think they’re definitely going to enter the market, but on the other side of that, I always talk to people on is yeah.

[00:36:10] You know, depending on when they’re going to enter the market, as depending on when there’s going to be a need for them in this. If consumers continue to go down and kind of do more of the unregulated process that they don’t get on board with automation, they don’t keep trying to level up the industry.

[00:36:25] They don’t drive that somebody will come in and make a major shift. So I think it’s on the people within the industry to keep pushing it forward. I think the more the people who are in it now can push that push automation and keep pushing. We’re starting to make more barriers of entry of other people and less requirements for big players to come in and sweep everything.

[00:36:46] I think

[00:36:46]Bryan Fields: that’s so important, right? Because we have a chance since you’re in the space, now you’ve got a substantial start and a lead. And if you can adhere to where the industry is going, you’re right. You can keep yourself in striking distance or at least give yourself a real chance [00:37:00] to compete. When these big players come in.

[00:37:02] If they do come in, they’re going to have two options, right? They can either buy people up in the space, which they likely do in order to expedite the process into the industry. Or they got to start from square one. And we’ve talked about today, it’s challenging. There’s a whole bunch of opportunities. And let’s say a learning curve that goes into the.

[00:37:19] That if you haven’t operated in cannabis, you kind of sometimes don’t recognize the massive hurdles and the challenges that just come from just by operating in this space and to kind of take my swap at the predictions. I would say the regulations and the certifications, like we’ve talked about today, where people have that choice between like going with the cheaper option or with the one that’s more forward-thinking I think by the 2025.

[00:37:42] Those options will be really heavily swayed towards the more certified piece of equipment. I don’t want to have conversations with operators where I’m not interested in having conversations with operators now who are looking to kind of save money now and figure it out later, because those are the type of partners that are making the industry more challenging and [00:38:00] also hurting the end customer, I think, in the longterm.

[00:38:02] So my hope is that by 2025, everyone is onboard with regulations. We’re a little closer to kind of the distinct route of where we need to go. The path is cleaner and everyone’s kind of adhering to

[00:38:14]Rob Wirtz: that. No, that’s great. I agree. So Rob, for

[00:38:18]Bryan Fields: our listeners who are interested in learning more and getting in touch, where can they connect with.

[00:38:23]Rob Wirtz: Yeah, so they can, they can visit our website. It’s www.machtechnologies.com or they can email me. My email is R w I R T [email protected] or our phone numbers on our website. They can call in and talk to our sales or technical team and see how we can help them. Appreciate the

[00:38:43]Bryan Fields: time Rob we’ll link it all up in the show notes, talk to you soon.

[00:38:46]Rob Wirtz: Awesome. Thank you.[00:39:00]

Editors’ Note: This is the transcript version of the podcast. Please note that due to time and audio constraints, transcription may not be perfect. We encourage you to listen to the podcast, embedded below if you need any clarification. We hope you enjoy!

Cannabis is the future of medicine. In today’s episode of The Dime, Bryan and Kellan sit down with Ashley Wynn-Grimes, MS, RN-BC LSSBB.

Ashley is an agent of change in the field of medicine. She has taken her expertise in healthcare, professional development, and process improvement to develop a standardized approach for nursing professionals, Cannabis Nursing Solutions. Cannabis Nursing Solutions’ continuing nursing education activity is approved by the American Holistic Nurses Association.

Featured in Today’s Episode

• Healthcare that becomes a lifestyle
• Nurse advocacy for Cannabis
• Cannabis as medicine for the future
• Medical cannabis for students: Connor and Raina’s Law

Become a supporter of The Dime Podcast: https://anchor.fm/thedime/support

[00:00:00] Bryan Fields: This is the dime, dive into the cannabis and hemp industry through trends, insights, predictions, and tangents. What’s up guys. Welcome back to the episode of the dime I’m Brian Fields. And with me as always my right-hand man Kellen Finney, and this week, we’ve got a very special guest Ashley Grimes cannabis nurse, Ashley, thanks for taking the time.

[00:00:23] How are you doing?

[00:00:24] Ashley Grimes: I’m good. How are you? Thanks for having me

[00:00:26] Bryan Fields: doing well, excited to talk to another east coaster as the east coast dominoes fall, Kellen becomes more and more of the minority. What’s going on, Kelly? Not a whole

[00:00:35] Kellan Finney: lot. I’m just out here on the west coast, trying to hold down the. The massive surge from the east coast.

[00:00:40] It seems like, how are you doing Bryan?

[00:00:42] Bryan Fields: We’re doing good. We’re doing good. Excited to kind of dive in with Ashley. So actually for our listeners that are unfamiliar with you, can you give a little bit about your background?

[00:00:50] Ashley Grimes: Yeah, sure. So I’m a nurse. I’ve been a nurse for over well, about 13 years. I have worked in traditional nursing settings.

[00:00:57] Most of my career. So like med [00:01:00] surge telemetry. And then I worked my way up. I got my master’s degree at Towson university and nursing education. Whoop and I ended up in leadership positions through the second half of my career. So like a transition of practice program for new graduate nurses and working in corporate settings and things of that nature.

[00:01:18] All of that has been very rewarding and I’ve learned a lot, but definitely not where I want to spend the rest of my life. So I have taken on cannabis as my specialty, or I call myself an endocannabinoid specialty nurse and have started a small business called cannabis nursing solutions that offers training and consultation to nurses and other small businesses.

[00:01:40] And I’m excited

[00:01:41] Bryan Fields: to kind of learn more about that. So take us on that journey. Was there a certain part throughout your experience and your background where you realized you wanted to be in cannabis? Was it something you read? Was there an experience you had? Can you kind of share some more of those.

[00:01:54] Ashley Grimes: So my husband is actually a cannabis patient and has consumed cannabis [00:02:00] since I’ve known him and I wasn’t against it, but I also knew that it wasn’t like, I felt like it was like, Ooh, like, let’s keep this under the radar.

[00:02:08] Let’s not tell anybody, but really he was self-medicating. So I wanted to learn more about it at some point. And I decided to do some research. And when I discovered the endocannabinoid system, I was like, wait my whole nurse and don’t know about this whole bodily function. Like this does not make any sense.

[00:02:25] So for me, it was like super enlightening, but I also wanted to like learn more. I wanted to research more and that’s actually how the training course came to be. It was literally my research pulled together and organized in the way that I understood it. And that’s how I do stuff. Anyway. I learned it, rewrite it and recreate it for myself.

[00:02:44] And I was like, well, let’s make it into a training. I mean, that’s the short, short story to that, but that’s pretty much how one. From

[00:02:52] Bryan Fields: your circle with colleagues and things like that, are they open, take us through like what the stigma is like in Maryland and in kind of moving towards [00:03:00] cannabis as your preferred.

[00:03:01] So

[00:03:01] Ashley Grimes: when I first started this three years ago, it’s very different than how it is today. Our medical program has evolved quite a bit. The general public is pretty aware that there is a medical program here now, whereas three years ago it was kind of hush, hush. It was under the radar. If you knew you knew kind of thing.

[00:03:18] Right? So as my business is evolving, so is the industry here in Maryland and then further the nursing industry is becoming more and more involved. So back in 2018, which is around the conception of my business, the national council for state boards actually broke some guidelines that supports cannabis as medicine.

[00:03:38] For us to work under. And basically we call it NCS and they tell our boards of nursing. You know, what guidelines they need to follow. Now, all of nursing is not aware of this fact, but at the same time, when this is happening, my business is starting. So the slow, like spread of this information has kind of evolved with my business at the same time.[00:04:00]

[00:04:00] To answer your question. In the beginning, everybody was like, girl, what you doing? And then now as time has gone on, and I’ve kind of honed in on my messaging, my missing mission, my vision, all that kind of stuff, because that’s what happens when you grow a small business, more and more people are starting to kind of understand where my perspective is.

[00:04:18] As far as cannabis is, medicine is not just me saying, Hey, everybody just go smoke some weed. No, let’s talk about, you know like holistic medicine, holistic health. Just general wellness healing altogether. So, you know, even when I have conversations, it’s not just about the plan. It’s about like, how do you modify your lifestyle to achieve wellness?

[00:04:38] Bryan Fields: I love it. And before we kind of dive into your business, I want to go through the research a little more. When you were kind of learning about the endocannabinoid system, was there anything that you kind of stumbled the crime that surprised you that you’d like to see?

[00:04:50] Ashley Grimes: I think that the fact that it exists was the surprising fact.

[00:04:54] And, you know, we have a whole course in our nursing program that teaches about pathophysiology, right? So [00:05:00] most disease processes, we have some understanding of, you know, like the cardiomyopathy, you know, like we understand the, what the why and how it interacts with the body. So that’s standard for all nurses.

[00:05:12] And some people know more about it. Some people know less about it. Like that’s the way it works. Depending on how much research you do about it. So when I was learning about the endocannabinoid system that wasn’t surprising, it’s like, oh, it’s a neuro receptor system. Okay. I get it that these neurons attached to this receptor system, it binds.

[00:05:31] And then it has a specific set of responses to me that should, that should be standard nursing that. Everybody should know that all nurses should know that when they’re talking to their patients, they should be able to reflect on that fact and be able to critically think through their interactions with their patient.

[00:05:47] And that’s the piece that for me, is more surprising is that it’s not standard knowledge and. There has been some awareness of this system since at least 1990 in, well, before that as well, but we’ll stick with 1990 [00:06:00]

[00:06:01] Bryan Fields: Sandpoint. And again, what percentage of nurses would you say are aware of the endocannabinoid system?

[00:06:06] Ashley Grimes: Oh maybe, I don’t know. Like, I feel like. And I’m not, I don’t know every nurse out here and what their knowledge bases, but in my interactions, most people are surprised about the fact that there is an endocannabinoid system and the nurses across the country that are part of organizations that I’m affiliated with.

[00:06:24] I would guess about maybe 2000 across the country and that doesn’t even, that’s probably like 5% of nurses because there’s millions of.

[00:06:32] Bryan Fields: Tell him dive in there. And though, can I have a it system? I feel like it’s going to be such a hot topic in the next, let’s say six to 18 months as people kind of uncover this, isn’t a statistic surprising.

[00:06:43] And from your perspective, Kaelin,

[00:06:45] Kellan Finney: it’s not taught, right? So it’s not something that’s required to become a nurse. Or even a doctor at that point. So it doesn’t surprise me that it’s not, not taught. I will say though, that hopefully more individuals take on the [00:07:00] challenge of learning it on their own, like Ashley has, because it’s daunting when you have to go out and learn something that is, it required for you to actually do your day to day job.

[00:07:11] It’s kind of a double sided sword because the more and more research that comes out associated with the endocannabinoid system, we’re learning that it’s, it’s tied to more and more, really important bodily functions, right? It’s tied to homeostasis. It’s tied to regulating our moods to regulating our hunger.

[00:07:27] And so hopefully as the scientific research and the body of primary literature builds around it, the best thing that could happen to the industry is that medical school. Take on the challenge of developing. A standard curriculum for the end up to novelette system, across the board, it’s required to become a nurse it’s required to become a doctor.

[00:07:49] And I think efforts like Ashley’s are the going to be the tip of the

[00:07:53] Bryan Fields: spirit, if you will. So kind of expanding into that. If they were only was a training course that kind of provided the resources.

[00:07:59] Ashley Grimes: [00:08:00] So like I said, that the training course was developed just out of my mind, needs to organize and, and frame it in a way that made sense to me. So that’s what I did, but it goes through some of the history related to. To cannabis, you know, cause it does have a long history and the United States has its very intimate ties with the plant, which has led us through this prohibition and it up until now.

[00:08:22] And it talks about the endocannabinoid system. It’s still very basic. There’s more information out there, but you know, it’s just enough. So the nurse can implement cannabis into their personal practice. We talk about plant genetics. So the term. The cannabinoids. We talk about methods of dosing and considerations for that and understanding that it is a patient driven practice, which is something that nurses are very uncomfortable with because of the way our healthcare system works and just, you know, it’s a lot of stuff embedded in it, but very important.

[00:08:57] The focus is implementing into your [00:09:00] practice, your current practice. So we do things called treatment care planning for almost every disease process. And we come up with what’s called a nursing diagnosis for almost every disease process and our standard of care is based on that treatment care plan. So basically it gives them the tools to be able to implement into their.

[00:09:19] Bryan Fields: It did from an educational level, is this for more of the advanced crowd or the entry? Like where would you put somebody on the spectrum? Who’s, let’s say newer to the space, interested in the medicine aspect, you know, can you kind of take us through who the train program was created for

[00:09:34] Ashley Grimes: creative, for the nurse who is just interested in learning about the plant?

[00:09:38] So ideally though the training course is intended for So if a nurse was sitting in orientation or something like that, it would be part of their training. That’s great.

[00:09:50] Bryan Fields: And it’s one of the areas that we found is like a big struggles that there aren’t resources for these doctors who are, let’s say interested, but are unsure of where to go.

[00:09:58] So, so Kaelin, from your [00:10:00] perspective, we’ve had conversations with other doctors that are, that are pro cannabis medicine. Like what other resources outside of what Ashley’s is bringing to the table, do you think are beneficial to kind of help overall move the message?

[00:10:10] Kellan Finney: As far as resources to help move the message forward, I would say the only real resources would be a stage and a platform for them to kind of communicate what they’re finding in the real world.

[00:10:22] Right. So that would be the only like conferences at this point is really the only. Resource that is available to them to go kind of push their message forward. I mean, as far as like pushing a message forward, that’s the only research resource. And as far as resources go in terms of furthering our knowledge base, the only thing out there is just getting your hands dirty.

[00:10:43] Right and doing it yourself and actually going out and doing the work and working with people that are consuming cannabis as a medicine that are self-medicating and all of those things. Can you think of anything else, Brian, from your perspective,

[00:10:55] Bryan Fields: maybe with like organizations like the CEFC trying to help change the narrative are [00:11:00] others that are just taken on that, you know, that gigantic fight of, of changing the message.

[00:11:04] And actually, I want to ask you. Do you get pushback? Obviously, you know, cannabis is still kind of new specifically here in the east coast. There’s gotta be some doctors or nurses or like Ashley, like cannabis. Are you kidding?

[00:11:15] Ashley Grimes: What’s that like? So part of the evolution of me and my business has been around just being able to accept that people are where they are, you know, and if you’re not really ready to hear what it is that I have to say, and a lot of people aren’t, I’m okay with it, but, you know, at least I’ll be able to plant the seeds.

[00:11:34] I’ve started the conversation. And when you are ready to hear it, you’ll remember that cannabis nursing solutions exists. Ashley was the one who told you that and you’ll come back and it’s happened a lot. I can

[00:11:45] Bryan Fields: imagine change takes time. Yeah, absolutely. So what’s the biggest, let’s say negative pushback that others provided.

[00:11:54] I think on this pod specifically from my side, we always harp on a lot of the positives and I want to hear more of the negatives, what others [00:12:00] are bringing to the table saying actually,

[00:12:01] Ashley Grimes: what about. So the one that kinda stands out in my mind was a young lady. She was a nurse who was telling me that I was trying to kill her son because like cannabis is a gateway drug and

[00:12:14] Oh, I just said, oh, okay. I, you know, my apologies. I’m not trying to kill your son. And, you know, we just kind of disconnected at that point.

[00:12:24] Bryan Fields: Like the 1982 dare script, right. Cannabis is a gateway drug, right. The same school. And it’s like, just say, no, that’s gotta be such an uncomfortable experience. I mean, at that point you just gotta be like hard pass.

[00:12:37] Ashley Grimes: Yeah. I mean, you know, and, and that’s what I’m saying. So at that time, when, when that comment came up, I was like, oh God, like, you know, do people really think this, you know, I started questioning what and why I was doing what I was doing.

[00:12:49] And, you know, a lot of it, a lot of where I was and where I am today has a lot to do with just having the self self-confidence to stand firm in what I know to be true. [00:13:00] And when I run into those types of conversations, just walking away, knowing that it’s just not their time to. This information and I’m okay with that, you know?

[00:13:09] So, yeah. And kind of just pulling out that, like, I’m not debating with you about it because it’s not a debate. And that’s just the end of the conversation. As far as I’m

[00:13:21] Bryan Fields: concerned, it’s been stigmatized for so long. So someone like that, obviously it’s it’s, it’s not even a challenge, right? It’s like I’m going to in, it’s an impossible barrier to overcome.

[00:13:29] If their first response is like, you’re trying to kill your son. I mean, your role as a nurse is to essentially help people. So if, if her words out of her mouth are, you’re trying to kill myself, Clearly there’s a disconnect and where to go. So, I mean, there’s no doubt that unfortunately that’s part of the process and, you know, hat tip for you for continuing to fight the good fight.

[00:13:49] So kind of switching gears a little bit, let’s talk about some of these conferences. I’ve seen you pretty active in the, in the speaker circuits, and I’d love to kind of hear some of the topics you’ve been discussing and [00:14:00] any, any ideas that are really at the forefront of your mind.

[00:14:03] Ashley Grimes: So. Whatever is relevant to me at that time.

[00:14:08] Like I am so okay with just talking about whatever is on my mind. And again, it goes back to like just kind of building, you know, who I am and what it is that I’m trying to communicate. So at this stage in the game is, is an acknowledgement of nurses in the space is an acknowledgement of underrepresented populations.

[00:14:26] Black and brown women in the space is an acknowledgement of, you know, the endocannabinoid system for nurses. So those are the things that kinda stand out to me right now. And, you know, just understanding the system of healthcare and how it fits into the entire construct of our society. And just kind of making that relevant to people and understanding like, you know, where this plan is going.

[00:14:51] So, you know, it’s just interesting to me that we call the plant medicine, but our healthcare systems aren’t involved with it. And it has a lot to do with the way that [00:15:00] our system. It’s leaning more towards capitalism and it’s not, you know, taken on healthcare aspect of it as much. As I think that it should because of the impact that it could have on people.

[00:15:11] So that’s pretty much the narrative that I, I like to communicate in different regards and, you know, different. Ways and perspectives of looking at that big concept, you know, so that’s usually where I kind of hit that’s the tunnel. I usually head down, I don’t focus on disease specific, you know, a lot of my nurse counterparts, they’re like, oh, I’m an expert in diabetes and all that kind of stuff.

[00:15:33] I didn’t do that in my career. I was a med surge nurse. So I knew everything a little bit about it. You know I worked in corporate, so I understood healthcare systems and project management and implementation and things like that. So I take that approach and I applied.

[00:15:47] Bryan Fields: Cannabis Kaylin. Do you want to dive in there?

[00:15:49] I know pharma is one of your biggest enemies that you like to attack. So from a health care, it’s not an enemy.

[00:15:57] Kellan Finney: I just don’t agree with the current [00:16:00] model that they follow to deliver potentially life-saving drugs to the masses. Right? I mean, yeah. I mean, that’s a, it’s a sticky subject, right? Because at the end of the day, modern medicine and the Western world specifically America, Trent in by making money, right.

[00:16:19] It’s a business, right? So from every single standpoint, they need to make money. Are there, do they take advantage of the kind of monopoly that they have? Of course, I believe that for sure. Is there individuals who wheeled individuals or groups who wield significant amounts of power within those organizations, driving decisions that probably aren’t for the welfare of society, most likely.

[00:16:45] You know what I mean? But at the end of the day, it’s the only thing we have. Right. I guess that’s, it’s kind of like a brand at this point. I was honestly thinking about it while you’re talking. And it’s like, there is a lot of individuals that just go into the hospital and access. Whatever that [00:17:00] doctor says to them as like the word of God.

[00:17:02] Right. And it’s like, a lot of people don’t even think that, oh, maybe I should go get a second opinion at this other hospital or, or all these other things they go in and it’s like, no, this, this is the word of God. So I’m kind of ranting right now, but like the hospital system goes and, and how that relates to cannabis.

[00:17:19] And, and again, I think that potentially there is a place for cannabis in the medical system. It’s just going to be a really. Challenging moment, I guess you could say, within the development of the hospital and our medical system, because at the heart of it, cannabis is. The complete opposite of how pharmaceutical industry has been treating diseases for the last 50 plus years, in terms of one single molecule, the API, this molecule is what treats this disease.

[00:17:52] What we’re finding with cannabis is that it’s not cut and dry. It’s this poly molecule poly molecules system that seems to work the best. [00:18:00] Right? I mean, perfect examples without the dialects, right? It’s a combination of THC and CBD two molecules together that are actually. What’s helping individuals with schizophrenia, that type of schizophrenia.

[00:18:12] I’m not exactly sure. The specific type of that schizophrenia I’ll pop my head, but that I think is a really positive thing for society is as we hope, hopefully it opens the door to all these other potential drug interactions that could enhance our ability to treat diseases. Yeah.

[00:18:33] Ashley Grimes: You know, it’s so interesting because I think healthcare is, is antiquated.

[00:18:39] At this point, it hasn’t really evolved with society. So you’re right. Like the way that we treat medicine is, you know, is outdated, you know, prescribing a medication for every single thing that somebody comes in with isn’t necessarily conducive. Like we complain a lot of times about the fact that our older adults aren’t taking all their pills.

[00:18:58] Why did it have so many pills? [00:19:00] You know, like when there are other ways that we can consider not saying that it is the way to fix things, but there are other considerations that could be a little bit more conducive to a person’s lifestyle. We talk about in nursing all the time. You know, how do we get a person to make a lifestyle change?

[00:19:17] We’re going to tell them and teach them and educate them. And then all of a sudden they’re going to change their life. Don’t work there. You know, so just the acknowledgement from the powers that be who drive our healthcare systems, you know, it needs to be a realization that our society has changed fundamentally.

[00:19:36] And the way that you interact with your nursing staff, which they’re still running around here talking about as the millennials is doing everything wrong. It ain’t the millennials doing everything wrong is, is our gen Xs that’s coming in and, you know, making these major changes because they’re the ones who have grown up with technology at their fingertips from the moment that they were born.

[00:19:57] So, you know, even beyond just the [00:20:00] plant medicine, we need to change the way that healthcare looks at, the, their customer who is the patient. And they’re largely refusing to do.

[00:20:08] Bryan Fields: Well back to capitalism and we can kind of dive into that at the time, because like that one is such a, it’s such a negative rabbit hole, right?

[00:20:15] Because then the day you’ll write, as you go see your doctor, their roles to help you and, and tell them, like you were saying, like most probably don’t challenge the doctor and be like, Hey, I don’t really want them, but, and then Ashley coming back to you. If I’m, let’s say open to cannabis medicine. Right.

[00:20:31] But my doctor is not really interested or isn’t going to prescribe that to me. Is it on the patient then to kind of ask the doctor for guidance or do you need to go seek out a specific doctor that specializes in cannabis medicine in order to be afforded? Let’s say that is an option to kind of suit.

[00:20:47] Ashley Grimes: Yeah, technically it is. It’s up to the patient to advocate for themselves. And back to the original point, a lot of times patients don’t have the confidence to, you know, suggest this thing for their doctor because of the stigma, because [00:21:00] the doctor is considered God in a sense. So you know, now the patient is sitting there.

[00:21:06] Thinking or considering, or doing something without any, any guidance or support or even the proper education, but cannabis culture is real. And the information that’s spread amongst culture, the culture, isn’t always 100% accurate

[00:21:20] Bryan Fields: important. Right? And, and I wish for everyone, that’s hearing this to feel more comfortable in sharing that information because medically there is opportunities to say, if I don’t want to take X, I can take Y.

[00:21:30] And if that’s the path you want, you have to be more vocal. Ashley for those people who are, let’s say interested or intrigued, but don’t know any information are not really sure about what is, let’s say the minimal line of information to know. What would you share with them as someone who’s interested in kind of approaching cannabis as a medicine for the first time

[00:21:50] Ashley Grimes: with their doctor?

[00:21:50] I didn’t really suggest that when they talk about it with their doctor, they ask their doctor the question, what is an endocannabinoid system? [00:22:00]

[00:22:01] Bryan Fields: Your point, please, you might sell many doctors that might be, is there, is there a second line in case they have some sort of formidable response?

[00:22:10] Ashley Grimes: Well, if the, if the patient is already aware, then they can, they can absolutely educate their doctor and once they get, I don’t know.

[00:22:16] So the thing about the personality of the average physician, I’m not saying all, but they tend to want to know. ’cause they feel like that they are the ones who are supposed to be knowing it all. So if you approach them with a question that they can’t answer, there’ll be more likely to receive whatever the answer is.

[00:22:34] If you think, you know the answer, right? Because you didn’t already put them in a place where they’re uncomfortable, because they’re supposed to know the answer. And then they can do their research. After they’ve met with a patient, I’m going to research the endocannabinoid system and now they have that in their toolkit.

[00:22:48] They can come back around to the patient and now it might be most likely it will be more of an open conversation about what to do next, where to go. And hopefully that doctor can provide the [00:23:00] guidance that like meshes with their medical expertise and their understanding of the plan.

[00:23:05] Bryan Fields: So let’s kind of continue on that same.

[00:23:07] I saw that you wrote a book and I’d love to kind of hear more about that. Can you kind of

[00:23:11] share

[00:23:11] Ashley Grimes: some? Yeah. So it’s a children’s book actually, it’s called ACEs medicine and it was inspired by my work in Maryland. We have a bill here that allows medical cannabis in schools. It passed in early 20, 20, and after it passed, they needed somebody to work on a work group that knew about cannabis to help develop guidelines for the implementation of.

[00:23:36] So I was able to participate in that I contributed and is published with the with the public guidelines, which is really cool, but I still have. I had a lot of questions about the social impact. Like, you know, in this scenario, the child who’s attending school, who taking the medical cannabis is technically my patient.

[00:23:56] Right. And that patient is potentially [00:24:00] interacting with my child. Right. Like I have a child in Maryland schools, so. My head automatically went to okay. As the parent, what would I want my kids to know when they’re interacting with this other child, you know, as a nurse, what would the school nurse need to do to help advocate for this child in school?

[00:24:19] Because that’s what they do in the school setting. We give them their asthma and. So we’re also going to give them the medical cannabis in school and you teach about it on a regular day. So why not this the interaction with the teacher and then the other children’s response to this because the children only know what their parents have taught them.

[00:24:37] So if their parents are. looking at Cannabis from an antiquated standpoint, that’s what they’re passing on to their children. So the likelihood of that child bullying another child because of their differences, quote, unquote, I think is pretty significant. So anyway, the children’s book touches on. And like 20 pages, but just very simple terms, colorful [00:25:00] graphics, about a child who goes to school and some other child comes up to him and says, oh my gosh, you’re taking medical marijuana.

[00:25:08] And they briefly touch on the stigma. You, you kind of see that the teacher’s response him and the school nurse come and teach the class about cannabis. And just a couple of sentences. And that’s pretty much it. And the child’s name is EISA and he comes home and he’s proud because he taught the class something new.

[00:25:24] I think that’s

[00:25:25] Bryan Fields: an incredible story for someone who’s a constant reader of children’s stories. Nowadays. It’s really important. The by-lines of the hidden meanings within it. Obviously the sauna, at least my son isn’t understanding of the different concepts, but I think one of the things that’s surprised me about children’s books is.

[00:25:40] Takeaways for the parents in there too. And I think one of the benefits of your book is that you’re kind of changing the narrative for the parents who are reading this book and realize. Medical cannabis is no different than the inhaler. Exactly. Like you described. And if we’re depriving children and others of this medical ability, I [00:26:00] mean, it’s really, it’s really sad.

[00:26:01] And I think it’s really, really powerful that you’ve taken that approach because I think it’s not done enough at like a simple fundamental level. And I’m curious to hear work, to see other parents read this and then start wondering to themselves, like maybe we should start changing the stigma, telling your.

[00:26:18] I

[00:26:19] Kellan Finney: agree with everything you said. I just have another quick question though, for Ashley, I was thinking how challenging was it to distill that message down into a couple sentences and communicate that in like one or two sentences, because it’s kind of a complex topic.

[00:26:35] Ashley Grimes: It is. So it was, it was, it was such a challenge getting just the story concise.

[00:26:41] But I mentioned that I have a daughter, so she actually had. So I would, yeah, so I wrote it out and I was like, does this make sense to you? And she’s like, no, what are you talking about? And you know, and at the time she was only 10. So she’s like, no, and I would explain it to her. She’s like, oh no, you can write it like [00:27:00] this.

[00:27:00] And now I understand. Yeah. So that’s, that’s the only reason why I was able to figure that, that

[00:27:07] Kellan Finney: it sounds

[00:27:07] Bryan Fields: like, man, that must be so tough. Yeah. There’s a lot of moving parts in that story, right. Between the parents, students, the nurse, I mean, there’s endless people and you all have to communicate like a central message and also take them through the climax of like maybe not being sure.

[00:27:23] And then being short towards the end in very limited. Yeah.

[00:27:28] Ashley Grimes: Yeah. And you know, and I do get feedback sometimes it’s like, well, that’s not enough. Or nobody understands what that is. And it’s like, if I explained every single word, if I broke down, it wouldn’t be a children’s book

[00:27:39] Bryan Fields: anymore. No, it wouldn’t even be an adult book.

[00:27:41] People were just like, I’m not reading that the addiction. All right. So slightly switching. Heroes or mentors in the cannabis space. I think everyone, as they kind of go through their career, always has one person that’s made a massive difference, help change them or help get them to where they were. Is there anyone in your life, [00:28:00] Ashley that’s made a substantial difference that you can kind of share a story?

[00:28:03] Ashley Grimes: There are some, a lot of core people that have helped me through my evolution. So, I mean, it’s a break it down into one person it’s kind of hard, but I’ll stick with, I guess, the simplest and most obvious person that would be my husband. So. My husband is the one who encourages me daily. He’s the one that has supported all of my crazy ideas.

[00:28:30] And I come up with quite a bit of them, including the children’s books. Hey, today, I’m going to write a children’s book. Oh, really? Okay.

[00:28:41] So and, and, and those moments come more often than not, but you know, the biggest piece of it is knowing. Who I am and him being okay with that, because the way that I look at the world has changed significantly since I’ve discovered this endocannabinoid system you know, just [00:29:00] understanding what true homeostasis is and real wellness and implementing that into my life has changed me quite a bit.

[00:29:06] And for him to go down this rollercoaster with me has been just nothing short of magical. I’ll use that term because. A lot of people don’t like to see things change

[00:29:18] Bryan Fields: since you’ve been in the Cabo, the industry, the biggest misconceived.

[00:29:24] Ashley Grimes: That I smoke weed all day. Yeah. It’s you know, I have, and I do occasionally I microdose I’ll try different things just to experience it.

[00:29:34] Like, you know, my recent experiment was with this cannabis honey and I would take a very, very small amount every day and it was amazing. I loved it. But. You know, most people are like, oh, it was great because you get all this free weed. And I’m like, eh, I mean, I do get stuff for free sometimes, but I’m not really in it for that, you know?

[00:29:52] And no, I’m not high right now. And you probably won’t see me high unless I, I decided. [00:30:00] Overindulged, but I probably won’t is all about intentional use of assumption for me all about it.

[00:30:06] Bryan Fields: You could sum up your experience in a main takeaway or lesson learned to pass on the next generation. What would.

[00:30:13] Ashley Grimes: Continue evolving. Don’t be okay with the status quo. Don’t be okay with the way that things are handed to you today, because the way that they’re handed to you today is based on the circumstances of today. So whatever it is that you have going for you in the future, make it into your own world, evolve it, create it, make it grow.

[00:30:33] All right.

[00:30:33] Bryan Fields: Prediction time. Okay. What would you change today? So that in five years in 2026, Would help healthcare providers understand the massive benefits of medical cannabis?

[00:30:48] Ashley Grimes: I don’t know. I feel like that’s a bigger question than you may get seen. What would I change today? I would just, nursing programs would have a cannabis topic embedded in their med surge program or [00:31:00] something.

[00:31:00] I don’t know. Some sort of education is already infused in, in our nurse training.

[00:31:07] Bryan Fields: I

[00:31:07] Kellan Finney: would say that, I mean, it’s tough, cause that’s probably the best answer. Right. But I’d say, you know, that the endocannabinoid system is actively being developed in med school and nursing school and all of our medical professions that the masses put faith in.

[00:31:23] You know what I mean? I think that would be probably the best development. I would kind of expedite all of the good things that come with. Using cannabis as a medicine and, and all the things that we haven’t yet discovered in terms of the potential associated with it. So those, that would be my answer just to piggyback on Ashley, Brian, I don’t know if you can do another piggyback.

[00:31:46] So I think you’d have to think of something original here.

[00:31:50] Bryan Fields: I would make the masses read Ashley’s book, I think in 20 pages, she’s billing multiple myths across multiple departments and in a [00:32:00] children’s books. So like conceptually. Everyone can understand the simple terms of what’s going on and the ability to kind of compare and contrast and then evolve the characters as they understand what’s going on, I think would make a big difference.

[00:32:13] At least in my perspective, when you create a book like that, and it’s intended for a child as a parent, when you’re reading about it, you naturally think about what’s going on and then kind of dissect. At least that’s how I handle the children’s book. And I wonder myself, how would I perceive this? And then I, you know, I’m just thinking about it out loud.

[00:32:30] I would assume if my son needed medical cannabis for whatever. And we were helping provide that. I would never want my child bullied no matter what. And even more. From a medical standpoint, especially one that makes a difference. So I think kind of dispelling myths in a children’s book. I think it’s a beautiful way of taking the older generation, simplifying the information, saying, Hey guys, like it off your, your, your couch and like your high horse, like take a look at this, then let me know what you’re thinking.

[00:32:54] So that’s the route I would go. Is that original enough for you telling[00:33:00]

[00:33:01] you actually, for those who want to learn more? They want to get in touch. Where can they reach you?

[00:33:06] Ashley Grimes: Cannabis nursing solutions, llc.com. And you can email me at gratitude at cannabis nursing solutions, llc.com. And

[00:33:14] Bryan Fields: we’ll link it up in the show notes and everyone who has a young child that they go by Ashley’s book.

[00:33:18] We’ll link it in the show notes also. Thanks for your time, Ashley. Thank you.

Editors’ Note: This is the transcript version of the podcast. Please note that due to time and audio constraints, transcription may not be perfect. We encourage you to listen to the podcast, embedded below if you need any clarification. We hope you enjoy!

Mike Mejer, CEO of Green Lane Communications, has a passion for helping cannabis businesses succeed. Our latest episode of The Dime Podcast features Mike and his extensive knowledge on Cannabis branding.

Featured in today’s Episode:

• Importance of relationships in cannabis
• Establishing cannabis professionalism
• Building cannabis brands
• Connect cannabis professionals

Green Lane Communication is a public relations and marketing firm that connects cannabis leaders to media and press opportunities to increase brand awareness, establish credibility, earn consumers’ trust, and to penetrate one of the most competitive industries at scale.

[00:00:00] Bryan Fields: This is the dime, dive into the cannabis and hemp industry through trends, insights, predictions, and tangents.

[00:00:11] What’s up guys, welcome back to there to settle the dime I’m Brian Fields. And with me as always, I’ve got my right hand, man, Kellen Finney. And this week we’ve got a very special guests, another east coast, their new York’s own Mike Mejer founder of Greenland communications.

[00:00:24] Mike, thanks for taking the time. How are you doing?

[00:00:27] Mike Mejer: And I’m doing great. I always love talking to other fellow new Yorkers that are in the cannabis space. So a it’s the pleasure’s mine. Awesome.

[00:00:33] Bryan Fields: Kellan, what’s going on, man?

[00:00:35] Kellan Finney: Not a whole lot. I’m excited to be the only west coaster on the podcast today. So it’ll be interesting to get both east coast

[00:00:41] Bryan Fields: takes east coast.

[00:00:43] Weed is finally here. So Mike, before we get started,

[00:00:50] before we get started, Mike, can you tell our listeners a little bit about your.

[00:00:55] Mike Mejer: Yeah, for sure. So at the moment I do PR in the cannabis space, [00:01:00] but taking a little bit of a, of a rewind I got started in, in public and media relations and a little bit of thought leadership development around 2011, 2012. But I was working in the book publishing space at the time.

[00:01:12] So I was working with nonfiction business book authors. Launching their books and at a boutique agency that I worked for at the time, we essentially just did a PR campaign to launch them, kind of build up their authority, their credibility, their expertise, and shine, a positive spotlight on that. But about three, I would say three years into that.

[00:01:30] I decided to take a trip to a local hemp wellness center here in New York, and just educate myself on cannabis on CBD and how do all these different cannabinoids interact with the body. And I would say about five minutes into my visit, I was just having a great conversation with the shop. And in comes an older gentleman who was suffering from really debilitating tremors.

[00:01:51] And I’ve told this story before he couldn’t even open the door on his own. His wife basically had to open the door. She had to do the talking for him because he couldn’t even control his [00:02:00] body or formulate sentences. The tremors were so severe. And long story short, the owner was just like, Hey, listen, I, you know, I had this one tincture specifically that I think could really make a significant impact and a difference on this situation.

[00:02:14] Feel free to try it out. If you want, make yourselves comfortable, hanging out for five to 10 minutes, see how you feel and we’ll take it from there. And so I’m watching all of this go on. I kind of took a step back, but I’m watching all of this take place. And after he took the team. What felt like maybe two minutes and all of a sudden it was like a light switch.

[00:02:32] He regained control of his body. Tremor subsided from what it seems like, maybe like 70%, 80%. And all of a sudden he was able to talk again. And the first words that came out of his mouth were I need the biggest bottle of whatever shit it was. You just gave me. And that was like the coolest moment, but it was, and I get goosebumps every time I tell that story.

[00:02:51] But at that moment, I was like, you know what? I love what I’m doing. I love business. I, I personally am like a, like a personal growth, personal development [00:03:00] junkie. So I love that world of books. But I felt so drawn to putting a positive spotlight on people like that. Shop owner, making a positive impact on other people through the use of cannabinoids or cannabis based products that instantly I was hooked.

[00:03:15] And I just decided to transition over from that world over into cannabis. And so I still take that same framework and that those modalities, but I just decided to bring them over into cannabis. And and now we’re almost three years in and it’s just, it’s been one hell of.

[00:03:30] Bryan Fields: And I love hearing that story.

[00:03:31] So I want to kind of talk more about that, right? You’re you’re, you’re making the pivot into cannabis, obviously in New York, as Carolyn was saying we’re a little bit behind. So what does the surrounding people in your life say when you’re like, Hey, I’m pivoting my life. I’m moving into cannabis. What’s the natural kinda conversation.

[00:03:48] Like,

[00:03:49] Mike Mejer: so at first I knew that it wouldn’t be a good reaction. It would be like, oh, like, what are you doing? It kind of just seems like you’re going off into this crazy direction. So I didn’t really talk too much about it. [00:04:00] I just did it. And I was like, I think the work is going to speak for itself. I just have to do it.

[00:04:05] There was a little bit of blind faith, a little bit of a risk, but something in me was like, no, you can do it. So I did it and things were really starting to take off. And that’s when I started to talk about it a little bit more with, you know, friends, family, people in New York. And at first they were kind of.

[00:04:19] A little bit taken back by it, but then they were also like very, very intrigued. And as you know, now, New York is starting to get on the legalization bandwagon. And now when I bring it up in conversation, Everybody’s like what, like, tell me more about this. I need to know more about it. So just as, as like a cannabis culture in the state of New York, it’s really cool to see how much it’s progressed from like two, three years ago to where it was like still very taboo.

[00:04:44] And it’s still a little bit taboo depending who you talk to, but now people are kind of like, Wait. So like, tell me more like what’s going on in this whole, like weed world. So it’s cool to see that shift happening.

[00:04:56] Bryan Fields: You have a shift in, in, in about two years has just been absolutely crazy. [00:05:00] At first, my parents were, were telling people and then they were like, the responses were really mixed and now people are asking questions every time, you know, I see this product or I don’t sleep I’m in pain.

[00:05:10] Like what, what can I do? Where can I start? I mean, it is all over the board, but I think the best part. The kind of curious folks are here. People are really excited to get started. And as you were saying, New York is finally waking up for what’s going to go on. So let’s start about that conversation when you’re having conversations with people in the space, you know, what’s a typical conversation, like from like an educational standpoint, where do you try to guide them?

[00:05:33] What information do you think it’s really important for people to know that are, that are maybe newer to the.

[00:05:39] Mike Mejer: Yeah, I would. So there’s there’s, there are two conversations that I typically have, and it might be somebody who’s just new to using cannabis based products. And the other conversation is there’s somebody who’s new to the industry and they want to break out in it.

[00:05:53] And I think. For the industry, part of that question, it’s I always emphasize relationships and I know my [00:06:00] business is based on relationships, just being in PR, but so many other businesses, whether it’s compliance extraction, even like CPG products, every single CEO or founder of a company who’s doing well, we’ll all.

[00:06:15] Tell you, if you ask them, you know, what’s been one of the keys to your success it’s relationships and having strong bridges that are built on a foundation of trust, because I almost feel like maybe about five years ago, a lot of people came into, into the cannabis industry from outside industries and they promised a lot of folks, the world charge them a hell of a lot of.

[00:06:38] Didn’t deliver bounced. And so now that that leaves a sour taste in a lot of people’s mouths when they see new people coming in. And so what I always say is do your best to just build trust, build rapport, and play the long game, because there is no other game. People in cannabis are very keen to picking up on people who want to come in, try to make a quick buck and then get out.

[00:06:59] [00:07:00] So if you’re, if you think you’re going to be able to put one past these. It ain’t going to happen. And so come into cannabis with a, with a long-term mindset and focus on relationships, and that’s going to help you build out your network, build out, you know, the teams that you want, the talent that you want to attract to your company, or maybe get you in the door with one of your first clients where you can then build that.

[00:07:20] Different case studies or build out a portfolio of success. So for me, it’s always been relationships and that’s one thing that I’ll always preach because that’s one thing that a lot of people who I have respect for that I’ve seen succeed, they have always told me the same thing and it’s worked out very well for me.

[00:07:35] So from an industry standpoint, I would say. From the other conversations where people are getting into products and they don’t know where to start on the THC side of things. Don’t just read the back of a product label and be like, oh, this has 33%. This is going to be amazing. You might have the worst experience of your life and that’s okay.

[00:07:53] But it’s not all about the THC. It’s about all the other cannabinoids, the terpene makeup. And so that’s one thing I always stress to people who [00:08:00] are, who are kind of breaking into two cannabis products and trying them out for the first. I really love what

[00:08:04] Bryan Fields: you said about their relationships. And I’ve learned that incredibly fast of how important the value of this is at a whole nother level.

[00:08:12] And I think this is, you know, this is where you’ve excelled for so long is, is I can’t tell you how many times people have opened up doors for us just based on relationships and for her kind of playing the long game. So kind of go on that calendar, you know, expand on that company.

[00:08:28] Kellan Finney: Yeah. I mean, I think Ali’s right, like your network is your net worth, right?

[00:08:32] As far as everyone has the saying goes or a motto, if you will. But I think in cannabis, especially it’s, it’s a little more prevalent just because we all have like a common enemy, which is that it’s federally illegal and we’re all kind of pushing towards changing the cultural stigma. So it creates all of those factors that we’re all kind of fighting together.

[00:08:53] Yeah. There’s competition between brands and whatnot. We’re all fighting the same battles of trying to get safe banking, trying [00:09:00] to federal legalization. So that creates this community, if you will. And I think that like finding the right people in that community is just going to strengthen your business so much greater than like trying to just fight everyone in the industry like you would in other spaces, if you will.

[00:09:14] I know that’s not the best, like the cleanest analogy, if you will, but in cannabis, I think it’s a lot more important to have. Or you should put more emphasis on your network and the people that you kind of interact with and those relationships, because it’s a long game, right? Like, no, one’s getting rich quick and the media wants you to believe otherwise, I guess, but like, no, one’s getting rich quick.

[00:09:36] And like, if you’re really in cannabis, because you love the plant and. Kind of planted your flag where you think it like that story you told Mike, like, that’s a beautiful story. Why, why the plants should be available to the masses? You know what I mean? And there’s so many other medicinal benefits to it.

[00:09:52] And an X, Y, Z, from that perspective, and people are in the industry just to make money, are not going to make the right decisions that are going [00:10:00] to help the community achieve its goals. Right. People that cut corners. I mean, you saw this with vacate, right? Like people were cutting corners because they were cutting their distance.

[00:10:10] Into vape pens because they wanted to make more money. And that then created this entire crisis within the industry that almost crippled it. And so, like, we all understand that, like, we all have to be in this for the same reasons and do the right thing in order to win this way, bigger battle. That’s bigger than any one company in terms of changing the global opinion surrounding cannabis and its safety.

[00:10:35] Bryan Fields: So let’s kind of dive into your company. What’s a common conversation you’re having with your clients.

[00:10:41] Mike Mejer: Yeah. Great question. So with, with new clients or people that, that come to me, a lot of times that conversation starts out with, Hey, listen, we’ve accomplished X, Y, Z, and they’ll usually list out, you know, a number of accolades or really, really big game-changing achievements that the company’s done [00:11:00] internally, or maybe the impact that it’s made on a particular focus group in the.

[00:11:04] And then their main question is, you know, how do we get this out there? How do we tell our story? We have something here, but we just don’t know how to actually put it together and then get it out there and amplify that awareness. So that’s typically how conversations start and the, the typical day-to-day conversations with clients are just staying up to date on what’s happening in terms of business development.

[00:11:24] What new partnerships are forming, what new partnerships. What are needed to be formed in order to kind of like take things to the next level, and then just getting an understanding of where they are who they are, what they do and why they do it and where they want to go. And once we have that narrative built in and figured out at that point, it’s really I’m off to the races and I’m connecting with editors, reporters, journalists, a podcast host just like yourself.

[00:11:50] To find out who is covering certain pockets of the industry and who would be a valuable connection to cover their story or cover a new [00:12:00] business development, or maybe even do a executive profile on somebody. Who’s really got an interesting vantage point. That can share their perspective on it, through a lens that nobody else has in the industry.

[00:12:12] So a lot of connecting the dots, a lot of introductions, a lot of strategic thinking. And a lot of times the calls are kind of like brainstorm, bring picking sessions from my end. And I’ll just have a list of, you know, five to 10 questions where I’m like, Hey, listen, I don’t mean for this to sound like an interview, but.

[00:12:28] Tell me, like, where are you at with this? Where are you at with this? And then that just opens up so many different doors for me to go out there and connect those dots and make those introductions.

[00:12:37] Bryan Fields: Like when you’re trying to pitch some of your clients that sometimes there’s this, the cannabis stigma where people are a little more hesitant, deep.

[00:12:43] How do you have those conversations?

[00:12:45] Mike Mejer: Yeah. Cannabis focused outlets. Are in it. So they understand cannabis a little bit differently and they probably come from a different place than some of the more mainstream outlets. But I will say it really [00:13:00] helps whether you’re pitching to more mainstream outlets or whether you’re pitching to cannabis focused outlets.

[00:13:05] It really helps when you take a very professional, polished approach. And I don’t need. To be buttoned up when you’re not a buttoned up brand, right. Or like changing who you are or talking differently. That’s not what I mean, but like when you’re sending a pitch, it should be organized. It should be straight to the point.

[00:13:23] Why am I reaching out to you? What is it that I can offer? And this is the number one thing that I want people to always take away. And this is whether they work with me or not. And I always tell them this, when you send a pitch or if you’re talking to somebody what’s. It’s not about you, right? You might bring a lot to the table, but does that even matter to an editor that’s maybe covering extraction, but meanwhile, you’re doing something related to farming.

[00:13:48] There’s there’s no connection there. You might be a great person. That outlet might be killer, but if there’s no connection, there’s nothing in it for them. So I always stress. There has to be something in it for them in order to [00:14:00] make the pitch worthy. Otherwise you’re just wasting your time and their time.

[00:14:03] And they’re going to remember that. So that’s, that’s the one thing I always stress to people who want to pitch themselves for earned operations.

[00:14:10] Kellan Finney: I just wanted to give him props for emphasizing the professionalism. I think that’s one thing the industry has been trying to work on for the last five years.

[00:14:17] And it’s always music to my ears when other people are kind of continuing to push that message forward. So that was the only thing I wanted to say.

[00:14:23] Bryan Fields: Go ahead. Right. Why do you think that’s not so prevalent in the

[00:14:27] Kellan Finney: canvas? I don’t know. Honestly, I think that it could be because of just the. The demographic of individuals that I jumped into the industry.

[00:14:36] And it’s an unbelievable opportunity from an entrepreneur’s perspective. And I think that there’s a fair amount of entrepreneurs in space that were unsuccessful or struggled in other sectors in their life. And they saw cannabis as the. Kind of golden ticket opportunity to be able to start a company and still be able to smoke weed and do all these other things.

[00:14:57] Right. And it turns out that like when you [00:15:00] smoke weed all day, it’s hard to kind of like be organized and professional if you will. And so there, I think that at the beginning there was this kind of like a lot of people get in, at least from my experience, a lot of people started a weed company and they’re in being a weed company and they’re like, oh, well now I’m a.

[00:15:15] Weed company, so I can just smoke weed all day and then I’m just stoned all day. And it’s like, it turns out it’s hard to run a company when you’re just stoned all day, you know what I mean? Or at least like be professional about it. And so I think that, that and again, this is like, I’m not, I don’t want to group everyone into this category, right.

[00:15:31] This is just like a significant portion of individuals at the beginning of. Of legalization. I think that was the case. But over the course of the last five years, it has changed significantly. You know what I mean? And I think it’s because of people like Mike continuing to push that message forward because it turns out it’s a lot easier to do business with people.

[00:15:48] If they’re they’re organized, if they have their thoughts together, if they know what they want, like all of those things. So I think that that could be why I’m just speculating. Or do you have any opinions on that, Brian? [00:16:00]

[00:16:00] Bryan Fields: No, I’d be speculating as well. At least from a communication standpoint, like Mike was saying, I think some of these established journalists are expecting like a normal standard pitch when they get these recipients.

[00:16:11] So when, when people come with a different style, it’s not going to resonate as well as right. There’s going to have to be this molding of the two industry. Sure. You can do these different styles in cannabis. You can. All day, if you want it. I mean, at the end of the day, you know, there’s like a adherence to business practices that is the standard across the space.

[00:16:30] And the one thing is respect others’ time, trust, relationships. And when you’re going to pitch something, make sure it’s valuable, make sure that you do a little due diligence to make sure you’re pitching correctly. Because I can’t tell you how many times we’ve had conversations with people who come to us and they’re like, yeah, I just want to run like ads on this, or I want to do this.

[00:16:47] And it’s like, that’s great. But like, have you kind of thought through the. What cannabis is a lot of things. There are additional challenges in cannabis from a marketing sense. And, and Mike, I want to go back to you on this because I’m curious as if with some of the [00:17:00] first time founders, they approach you and they’re like, Hey, like let’s take this approach.

[00:17:03] And you’re like, Hey, sorry about that. But like in cannabis, we can’t do X, Y, and Z. Do you have those conversations at all?

[00:17:09] Mike Mejer: Yeah. I mean, I’ve had every conversation under the. And that conversation typically goes over pretty well because I’ll always preface it with being like I’m here to offer you just what I’ve experienced and based on that experience and based on some of the results good and bad.

[00:17:26] I just want to share this information with you, whatever you do with. Like at the end of the day, like your brand, your company, like your business, that’s your baby. And I totally respect that and I get it. So at the end of the day, like you are in your driver’s seat and you can do whatever it is. But if you ask me, I would advise against it because of XYZ and nine times out of 10 people are cool with it and they respect it.

[00:17:48] And. They take it and they run with it and sometimes they may be like, Hey, that’s a great idea. So does that mean that we can maybe do this or do a play on this? And I love those conversations, right? Because that means that we’re getting somewhere. And a lot of times I [00:18:00] learned so many new things just by having those conversations and my opening up those cans of worms.

[00:18:05] I welcome those conversations. But one thing that I want to just to kind of, kind of go back on real quick and this distresses, the importance of being professional and organized, I reached out to an editor of a pretty big industry publication. And the reason that I have a good relationship with them is because of one pitch that I sent last.

[00:18:27] And the response that I got was it was something along the lines of, wow. I can’t believe how organized your email was. I really appreciate it. And I wish that more publicists were organized. Like you isn’t that incredible. Yeah. And the reason I share that, the only reason I share that is because the response I got had nothing to do with the, with the client, with any.

[00:18:52] With any questions about the products? It was just because my email was organized. It had bullet points, it [00:19:00] was short and sweet. It had a very simple call to action at the end, took me maybe five minutes to write up. And to this day I have a great relationship with them and it’s all because of that one simple thing.

[00:19:13] Had nothing to do with cannabis. It had nothing to do with the topic. It was just a simple matter of being organized, putting together a really good, simple email. And that’s it. So just going back to like the professionalism, that was one example that I wanted to share with you guys and your listeners, because stuff like that is priceless.

[00:19:30] And working with somebody who kind of operates like that, versus somebody who scattered in all over the place. People are going to want to work with you a lot more. If you just have your shit together, sharing the

[00:19:40] Kellan Finney: opportunity in this industry. That’s what is your, that’s a USP right there.

[00:19:46] Bryan Fields: So let’s, let’s keep going on that besides organization and techniques like that for those listeners out there who want to be in this space, but they’re not afforded the opportunity to kind of partner with someone like yourself.

[00:19:56] Mike, what’s a concept or an idea that they [00:20:00] should be aware of that they’re not thinking about right now. Just based on your.

[00:20:03] Mike Mejer: Yeah. So you want to make sure that you’re telling your brand’s narrative before somebody else does, because chances are, if they do it before you do, it’s going to be incorrect or they’re not going to nail it down.

[00:20:12] And a lot of times that has to deal with marketing and branding and marketing and branding are almost like sisters or cousins to public relations and media relations, but being able to kind of formulate that narrative. Have it down, pat, and then take it and go on a podcast and be able to clearly explain it in a way that’s very easy for everybody to understand and run with, or to write an article about the pocket within the industry that you or your brand is, is actively working in doing those things.

[00:20:44] And starting with those things is a great place to just start telling your brand. Now, Building authority, building trust, building credibility, and all of this just goes back to none of this is, is short-term ROI. I mean, sometimes it does result in a phone call or an [00:21:00] email or a couple of new leads coming in and that’s great, but all of this is just like brick by brick, by brick.

[00:21:06] And it’s a long-term play, but after a certain amount of time of doing it, even just after a year or two of doing this, you’re going to look back in the mirror and be like, wow, I started here and now I’m here. And a lot of this has to do. With the credibility and the authority that I’ve built up over time.

[00:21:21] So starting with podcast, guest articles, pitching yourself to editors or to writers and offering your insight because you know that they cover certain topics and you could potentially offer them some insight as well as their audience, some insight that, you know, they value and they’re interested in and just sending emails and being friendly about it.

[00:21:41] And if they say. Offer them, you know, well, Hey, I appreciate the response, but at the same token, if there is anybody that you’re looking to connect with, please feel free to reach out because I’m more than happy to connect you with them. If I happen to have an expert in that category in my network. So even if it doesn’t benefit you today, being a [00:22:00] resource and an asset to somebody is going to benefit them.

[00:22:03] And in turn they’ll thank you for it down the road. And just repeatedly doing those actions pays dividends, especially in. Brand takes

[00:22:10] Bryan Fields: so much time to build that credibility and that trust, but you’re right. Once you get to that level of trust, people see a symbol, a color of font, and immediately associate something to it.

[00:22:23] And if you can associate or elicit some sort of positive affirmation towards that, you’ve done something that many people really aspire to do. But that’s not easy. And that our part is that everyone wants to do that, but are not willing to put in that grit and that consistency over time to build that.

[00:22:40] So, you know, continuing on that route, Mike, like when people are, are shaping that story and you know, they’re interested in cannabis, like telling that story is so, so delicate balance because a lot of people have interest in being cannabis or want to be in cannabis. Loved the plant loves smoking weed, but how do you get down to that truth story is really [00:23:00] art.

[00:23:00] So Mike, is there techniques you can recommend to people that are trying to craft that cannabis?

[00:23:06] Mike Mejer: So, I mean, the story has to be genuine, right? Like you kind of have to look back and, and ask yourself, you know, do you want to be the face of the company or is it just going to be a brand that stands on its own?

[00:23:15] Are you going to support it? And it depends, you know, where you visit a CPG product, are you a consultant? Are you a company that offers services? So a lot of these things come into play and kind of throw wrenches in the, in the nitty gritty. But overall, what I always recommend is identify who your client avatar is.

[00:23:31] So who’s like your ideal client, your dream client. Figuring out their demographics, psychographics. And then from there, write out a list, maybe 10 pain points that they have, and then take another sheet of paper. And then write out what skills and what value propositions you bring to the table, and then just simply connect them and trying to figure out, okay, well, how do I solve this problem for this person?

[00:23:56] And just bridge that gap. And then from there you start to connect the [00:24:00] dots and you figure out, well, how can I connect with my dream clients? How can I connect with the perfect person who could really value from, from this service or this product? And then from there, you can start to kind of go back and be like, well, you know, 30 years in agriculture, that should be a piece of my story.

[00:24:17] And then you kind of just start, you know, going backwards and, and connecting those dots and, and building the house. And that’s really how it all starts. And that’s just a good place to start. And from there, you’ll gain a lot of clarity. It’s, it’s almost kind of, it’s kind of therapeutic in a way, cause you can go back and, and just really see what’s going on and what you’ve done and, and how it all comes full.

[00:24:36] I love that

[00:24:37] Bryan Fields: you shared that. And there’s a client that comes to mind. And I wonder if Kellen’s thinking the same that created this brand and had this product and had this perfect person in their mind. Right. And built this entire story. But then when he priced it, he missed and he missed that. So when we were kind of going through it and he was describing this, this persona person.

[00:24:58] And then you’re like wondering, [00:25:00] you’re like, how can this person afford this, this, this high-end product. So I wonder Kellen is like, I suggest we start at the end part and work backwards, or the other way is like, you want identify certain product category and you know, it’s going to be on, let’s say the higher end.

[00:25:16] You then have to evolve the marketing around that because not, not everyday consumer can afford a super high end product. Is, is that the same approach you take? Yeah.

[00:25:25] Kellan Finney: I mean, at the end of the day, that’s the approach we always take with our clients is to start at the IMG. I mean, in kind of what the best case scenario looks like, and then try to work backwards from there.

[00:25:36] Cause like a lot of people they’ll hear the buzz and they’ll be like, I want to do this. And they’re like, look, if I build this spreadsheet and I make this number really large, I’m going to retire two years. You’re like, know like, you know, That’s just not how this works. And so working backwards is always what I’ve found is that at least the cleanest way to like set expectations.

[00:25:58] Cause I think that’s a [00:26:00] huge mistake. A lot of people make in the industry is kind of just not having proper expectations. Right. And so, so my, I have a question for you how often. When you’re working with your clients, do you come across one that does have that and target avatar or products, and it’s really kind of buttoned up?

[00:26:18] Is that like more so like 60, 40, like, what’s kind of the distribution of the clients that you talked to the, that do have those kinds of things, or at least have thought about the end consumer or the end product and what they want to do with that.

[00:26:31] Mike Mejer: So that’s a really, really good question. Most of the clients that work.

[00:26:36] I have thought through those things numerous times and they’ve nailed it down pretty well. I find that a lot of the people that I actually ended up working with they’ve in order to get to a place where they see value in publicizing their story and getting it out there, they must have already accomplished something pretty significant.

[00:26:55] And when you accomplish something so significant that it’s press worthy, right? Because I always ask, [00:27:00] like what, when you, when you think about a story or something you’re reading online, Right. Like, and so somebody is like, you know, what can we do with the story? Sometimes I’ll just be like, you know, congratulations, like, as an entrepreneur, that’s huge.

[00:27:12] But at the end of the day, like, so what, like, you haven’t done anything yet in the world of like headlines or press or something like that. So you have to be super like conscious of that. I digressed a little bit, but once you’re at the point of seeing the value in PR. You’ve probably already done your homework and you’ve already not just strategized correctly, but you’ve also executed and repeated that execution over and over and over again, to get you to a point where you’re like, okay, we’ve gotten here now to get here.

[00:27:40] We really need to blow this thing up. How do we get more attention and how do we connect with the, with the media and different outlets and, and people like that. So I’m very fortunate to be in that position and to be working with folks like that, but I’m sure it is very. And it’s something that I think a lot of people just kind of put that to the side when they start whatever endeavor as an entrepreneur.

[00:27:59] And sometimes they kind [00:28:00] of just jump ahead, but you do need to kind of just grab that pen and paper and lay out those blocks and ask yourself, is this even viable? Right? Does it, does my ideal client even have the funds? To subscribe to something like this or to pay for it or, or whatever. It might be.

[00:28:14] Great question though. I love it. I think

[00:28:16] Bryan Fields: that’s a really good point. So I guess for the people who are on the fence and wondering if PR is a good resource for them, you know, is there a couple markers or thought-through checklists that you would recommend for someone on the fence?

[00:28:31] Mike Mejer: Yeah. So for anybody on the fence, I always start with this and I start with this because there’s a lot of confusion between advertising and PR advertising is when.

[00:28:40] You desire for the end goal to be for people to click on something or see something and then go buy your product. So you see an ad on Instagram, or you see an ad on a billboard. You just want people, you know, go to the dispensary, go to the dispensary, or, you know, by this tincture, by this tincture. So that’s the end results [00:29:00] or what people desire when they really need advertising.

[00:29:03] But with PR you want the. To be when somebody consumes a piece of content, whether it’s a written article, whether it’s a podcast, you want people to walk away after they’ve consumed it and say, whoa, that’s. Two totally different things. Two totally different things that they accomplish. And so I always put that, disclaimer, if you will, like very, very early on in conversations, because if you’re looking for advertising, like I’m not going to be your guy.

[00:29:30] And if I try to convince you that that PR is what you need, you’re going to hate me because you’re not going to get the same results as advertising and vice versa. Right? So some people think that they need advertising when they really need PR. It goes the other way around as well. So those are two very clear distinctions PR you want people to get the importance of it advertising.

[00:29:47] You just want to drive traffic or directly drive sales and see if you can get a dollar for dollar ROI.

[00:29:53] Bryan Fields: So important. And the alignment of what the true goal is of all the parties involved to make sure that everyone’s on the same age, because you’re [00:30:00] right. If they come to you, Mike, and they’re like, Hey, let’s do this because I want to increase all of my website traffic.

[00:30:05] And you’re like, Swinging a miss there, sir. Like, I don’t really know that’s what we’re going to hope for. I mean, that’s tough. And sometimes, you know, we’ve had instances where we had a client that came through and fought. He wanted one thing and realize midway through the journey, he needed something completely different and that’s a really challenging approaches.

[00:30:24] We’re there to kind of help them and guide them through some of these, these really challenging processes. And, you know, it’s really important to understand what the end goal is and then align with that and work backwards and make sure. You’re creating a stepping stone. And every step you do is in order to achieve that goal.

[00:30:40] Totally. So I read one of your recent articles and I want to pick your brain on this. Cause I was, I was really excited about cannabis companies that prioritize this feature are typically more profit. And before we dive into that, I want to let you know that I was clicking that a hundred out of a hundred times before, because it’s a very enticing title.

[00:30:59] So [00:31:00] I give you a ton of prompts on the copy there, because I was like, I need to read this. I was like, ah, I have to read this now. So kind of dive in, take us through the process on, on, on creating a title like that. Is there like, is it intended? Like, can you share some ideas on that? Because I think it’s brilliantly

[00:31:15] Mike Mejer: done.

[00:31:16] Yeah. Thank you for that. So anytime there’s a. Whether it be the subject line of an email, right? That’s what a subject line. I was going to say subject title, but whether it’s a, whether it’s a subject line or whether it’s a title of an article, your, your goal is to always just get people’s attention at the, at the very least, because if they’re not going to see it, if they’re just going to blow past it, what good is the content that you spend hours developing on the inside?

[00:31:41] Whether it’s the body of an email or an actual article. And then I always like to back up. The title to make sure that it’s not considered clickbait or somebody clicks on it and then says, yeah, that’s that, that was a good title, but this is just awful. Like this has nothing to do with the title the way I like to make sure that that doesn’t happen is [00:32:00] to make sure that I can quantify, or I have done research that quantifies.

[00:32:06] Whatever statement it is that I’m making. So that article that you’re referring to, I think I wrote about compliance in that one, right? Yeah. And the reason I

[00:32:14] Bryan Fields: wanted to bring that up was because when I was kind of diving into it, the subject line, I’m glad you brought that up. The subject lines goal, at least in my opinion, is to sell the open, right.

[00:32:24] Is to get someone to open the article that email the subject is sole focus. And then the emails body is to really backup exactly like you’re saying, but ultimately it’s to take person through the. And then to sell the click at the bottom. And if everything is not in a line. You’re right. People immediately think clickbait and we’ve had conversations in journaling, Kellen, and I, about that approach, fundamentally, we differ sometimes on the words to include subject because he sends me a title.

[00:32:52] I’m like, dude, that is clickbait. And like, I would click that. No doubt, but it doesn’t, it doesn’t say what’s inside and he’s like, it’s [00:33:00] a good subject and right. There’s no debating on that. So it’s a really hard balance to kind of mix the duke Kaelin. What’s your thoughts on that?

[00:33:09] Kellan Finney: I do, I do send you a lot of subject lines or it’s just probably clickbait, but I’m trying to get engagement.

[00:33:14] Right. And so I think it’s, it’s a hard line to walk, but I do see the other side of that coin because I get emails that are clickbait and I open them up and I’m like, this is just spam. And then the next time I see an email from that provider, I’m like instantly delete block. Like I played this game before.

[00:33:34] I don’t want anything to do with it. And so, like I do, there’s a huge importance from a building a brand perspective that needs to be placed on those kinds of situations. And, and I’m glad that I have you there to kind of filter some of my more clickbait subject line.

[00:33:51] Bryan Fields: I mean, I’ve definitely click it, right.

[00:33:52] There’s no doubt about it, but go right. I’ll be upset after. And one interesting thing that I’ve learned in my experience, at least. Sometimes [00:34:00] it’s okay to have a dull subject when the value inside is expected already. So we’ve kind of a beat, a couple of emails, subjects, and we’ve taken, I’ve taken the aggressive approach and like selling the information inside.

[00:34:12] And it it’s the term, a majority of our openers and whether or not that was just random occurrence or certain subs. I was surprised to find out that a dull subject line sometimes of just embodying of generalization of insight. Sometimes can do the job, which was weird for me as a trained marketer to believe that.

[00:34:30] But that’s my experience. Mike, have you found something similar or a different approach, you know, share some ideas on that?

[00:34:35] Mike Mejer: Yeah, it’s super interesting because I’m sure you guys have seen subject lines or like ads where like the top headline is something like, you know, how I made it $5 million in 30 days and you can too, right.

[00:34:50] Awesome. Like, let me buy your course. You don’t think any of those

[00:34:53] Bryan Fields: are real, you’re really packing money. Twitter out there do be careful there.

[00:34:59] Mike Mejer: We got to talk after the [00:35:00] show, man. I mean, that’s, that’s probably a bad example, but like something like that is kind of what I would consider. Like, yeah. That’s like a, that’s like a sexy headline.

[00:35:09] That’s very like general for the most part, but it’s okay to not have this, this, this big flashy time square billable. Type of headline. If you know that your audience is not necessarily ones to offer something like that. Like if you’re talking to, to very high-level executives or people who are maybe in a particular niche that, I mean, I’d like to be blunt, like, I don’t know.

[00:35:32] Maybe it’s just a little bit of like a boring sector of the industry who knows. So like, you don’t have to try to come up with all these, like bling-bling flashy subject lines because they don’t even want that. So like sometimes you do have to kick it up a notch, but then other times you also have to get a good understanding for who it is you’re talking to.

[00:35:49] And that, that I think is the most important part. So like sometimes you might just catch somebody’s attention. I mean, Brian, even like you said, the subject line might seem dull, but then when you open up the article or you open up the email and you’re [00:36:00] like, man, this was, this was a great piece of content.

[00:36:03] And it’s not because it was flashing, but because it told you exactly what you’re going to expect, and then it was jam packed with more than you even anticipated. And I think that’s key to getting people to not just open it, but then to also consume it and then gain your trust or kind of be like, you know, what, I’m kind of excited for next week’s newsletter.

[00:36:20] So I think depending on who your audience is and kind of what they expect and what they want and what kind of world they live in and what they’re used to reading. That should also give you a little bit of a direction as to where you point your compass in terms of your, your copywriting. It all

[00:36:37] Bryan Fields: goes back to understanding exactly who your demographic is and then creating and crafting an experience completely for them.

[00:36:43] So, Mike, since you’ve been in the cannabinoid industry, what has been your biggest misconception?

[00:36:49] Mike Mejer: Ooh, that’s a really good question. My biggest misconception is that because the industry moves so fast, I thought that everybody did everything super fast. [00:37:00] So like for example, sometimes you wake up and there’s total like 180 news regarding, you know, maybe like a bill for legalization or there’s, there’s some kind of like advancement that you were like, well, that came out of nowhere.

[00:37:10] Awesome. But I totally came out of nowhere just because the industry moves like that and moves that quickly does not mean that everybody that you’re going to work. Also moves that quickly. And so that kind of caught me by surprise, but understanding how people work and what their turnaround times are and things like that.

[00:37:26] That’s a very important thing to understand and respect also, especially when you’re collaborating with different vendors or different people on your team that might be in a different location if you guys are remote. So just understanding people and understanding that everybody’s got stuff going on, whether it’s good or bad, but understanding that not everybody’s going to move as fast or as slow as you, that’s going to help you with your expectations a lot from other people in this.

[00:37:48] That’s good advice.

[00:37:49] Kellan Finney: So

[00:37:49] Bryan Fields: before we do predictions, we ask all of our guests, if you could sum up your experience in a main takeaway or lesson learned to pass onto the next generation,

[00:37:58] Mike Mejer: what would it be? [00:38:00] Relationship capital is incredibly. I was going to say is more valuable than gold, but with the way Bill’s going right now, I don’t know.

[00:38:07] But then it relationship capital, like stack that. Like the same way you might be, be stacking up cash or Bitcoin, or like you might be buying real estate investment properties, like stack up the relationship capital because that pays dividends in ways that you could never even imagine. And you can’t do things alone.

[00:38:25] You could be, you could be a solo preneur. You could be, you know, a, a one or two man operation, but like at the end of the day, let’s face it. Like, there’s three of us on this, this this podcast right now. You guys have done, you know, how many episodes already, like these, like all these different people, even though they might not be on your payroll, even though they might not be direct vendors, but like your paths cross.

[00:38:47] And so people have, they will help you get to where you want to go. As long as you help them get to where they want to go. Relationship capital well said, I would leave it at that

[00:38:59] Bryan Fields: prediction. [00:39:00] Silly prediction, but it’s a more of a theory. Mike, what is the best way for cannabis companies to add value to their organizations marketing wise right now that most are not doing

[00:39:13] Mike Mejer: start a podcast yelling.

[00:39:16] Kellan Finney: That’s a good one, but say the question again about marketing technique.

[00:39:20] Bryan Fields: Yeah. What can they be doing right now to further their cause wherever they are in the cannabis space,

[00:39:27] Kellan Finney: I’m going to go with. Consumer-facing brands and I’m going to say. More traditional marketing techniques. And I think as more white label brands have entered the space, they’ve tried to employ like other marketing techniques that are successful in the 21st century, right.

[00:39:47] From a consumer packaged goods perspective. But I think that every brand I’ve seen become successful has been. Very very involved in kind of a, like, almost like a grassroots movement. [00:40:00] Right? So like hosting vendor days, like becoming friends with the budtenders, right? Like all of these things are just, I don’t think that they’re executed as cleanly as they could be.

[00:40:10] And that most brands kind of undervalue that I think personally, and they’re not investing enough time into. The relationships, if you will, Brian, what’s your thoughts? This is your wheelhouse. I know.

[00:40:22] Bryan Fields: And I, and I don’t have to prepare an answer. I know, but I, I mean, every time I I’ve, we’ve, we’ve done a hundred of these and I’m 99 out of a hundred times.

[00:40:34] My answer has been stolen. So to have a few prepared answer, sometimes my second answer has been stolen. So podcast is great. One. It is exhausting, it’s tiring and it’s harder than I ever realized it could possibly. I think being authentic would be so valuable in that one idea that came to mind when you guys were talking, was like getting an inside, look behind some of these companies and what goes on.

[00:40:55] I think it’s so fascinating from like a documentary standpoint, the [00:41:00] industry is moving so fast and the things that are going on are so. Are ridiculous because these companies are scaling. They’re trying to build out these, these obstacles. They’re dealing with ups and downs throughout the day. They’re looking for employees.

[00:41:12] They’re doing vendor days. I think if we could get an inside look, if one of these MSOE, one of these smaller companies just took a simple documentary approach. It was kind of even an inside look of what’s going on. What are these companies? I think that would build up such brand trust and understanding just by seeing how it works.

[00:41:30] And I think you’d be able to deliver different type of value than you could. In a non traditional style approach, right? It’s not going to be that. Let’s just write a hundred articles in a hundred days, but we’re creating a piece of content. Like that would be different. It’d be unique. And it would be really special because it would give perspective to an industry that doesn’t have a behind the scenes approach yet.

[00:41:52] And I think it would be awesome to see. I mean, I’d be fascinated to watch that even being in this space and I can only imagine for all. We’re intrigued by it. Who wants to [00:42:00] get involved? Like how cool it must be to see the inside of facility. I mean, we’re fortunate enough where we have partners send us photos from their facility and it’s mind blowing and it looks fake some of the photos, we got a photo yesterday and I was like, this doesn’t even look like a real photo.

[00:42:14] And then I was like, I want to send this to someone, but I wasn’t sure if I’m allowed to just based on relationships, but just having that perspective. I mean, it was one of the coolest photos I’ve seen and just having the ability to kind of see that in. I think it would be so

[00:42:26] Mike Mejer: captivating. One of my clients actually yesterday texted me a picture of some new crop that they have on their land.

[00:42:33] And and I’m on the call and I’m just like, just, you know, like in the flow of the day. And I’m just like, all right, cool. Whatever, like, oh, nice. All right, cool. Well that we got this, we got that. And then I get off the phone and I’m like, this is my job. Like people sending me pictures of like fields of.

[00:42:49] All these plants. And like, I’m getting like, up-close pictures of like different buds and stuff like that. And like, if I was in high school and you saw my phone, you’d be like, send me to the [00:43:00] principal’s office. But like now, like you see my phone and you’re like, Tell us about this. Like how is the industry in New York?

[00:43:09] And it just goes back to kind of what we talked a little bit about before, how like, how things are changing and how it’s just so cool that, that, you know, the three of us here could even be in a position to where this is our, this is our livelihood and this is kind of what we do day in and day out. So I always think it’s cool just to kind of have a moment of gratitude for the fact that this is what we do.

[00:43:29] So it’s pretty cool

[00:43:30] Bryan Fields: stuff and it’s pretty awesome. And I think for those who are interested in getting into the space, but are hesitant because. Of whatever reason. I mean, you gotta be in it to win it. And cannabis is still in its infancy stage. And I know we’ve said this repeatedly, but like, think about it for a second and actually realize like, it is still federally legal.

[00:43:47] We still cannot buy legal products here in New York yet soon. But I mean, just from a perspective of where we are, we have so much where to go and now is the best time to get in if you weren’t in yesterday. So Mike, for our followers, [00:44:00] a want to get in touch, they want to learn more. Where can they read?

[00:44:02] Mike Mejer: Yeah connect with me on LinkedIn and that’s probably my favorite platform. And then if you want to visit the website green lane communication.com, or you can send me an email [email protected] and I’ll get back to you pretty quickly. I’m always up for a good cannabis chat.

[00:44:22] Bryan Fields: Well, thanks so much for your time.

[00:44:23] Michael, look forward to talking to you soon. You too.