Editors’ Note: This is the transcript version of the podcast. Please note that due to time and audio constraints, transcription may not be perfect. We encourage you to listen to the podcast, embedded below if you need any clarification. We hope you enjoy!
Mike Mejer, CEO of Green Lane Communications, has a passion for helping cannabis businesses succeed. Our latest episode of The Dime Podcast features Mike and his extensive knowledge on Cannabis branding.
Featured in today’s Episode:
- Importance of relationships in cannabis
- Establishing cannabis professionalism
- Building cannabis brands
- Connect cannabis professionals
Green Lane Communication is a public relations and marketing firm that connects cannabis leaders to media and press opportunities to increase brand awareness, establish credibility, earn consumers’ trust, and to penetrate one of the most competitive industries at scale.
[00:00:00] Bryan Fields: This is the dime, dive into the cannabis and hemp industry through trends, insights, predictions, and tangents.
[00:00:11] What’s up guys, welcome back to there to settle the dime I’m Brian Fields. And with me as always, I’ve got my right hand, man, Kellen Finney. And this week we’ve got a very special guests, another east coast, their new York’s own Mike Mejer founder of Greenland communications.
[00:00:24] Mike, thanks for taking the time. How are you doing?
[00:00:27] Mike Mejer: And I’m doing great. I always love talking to other fellow new Yorkers that are in the cannabis space. So a it’s the pleasure’s mine. Awesome.
[00:00:33] Bryan Fields: Kellan, what’s going on, man?
[00:00:35] Kellan Finney: Not a whole lot. I’m excited to be the only west coaster on the podcast today. So it’ll be interesting to get both east coast
[00:00:41] Bryan Fields: takes east coast.
[00:00:43] Weed is finally here. So Mike, before we get started,
[00:00:50] before we get started, Mike, can you tell our listeners a little bit about your.
[00:00:55] Mike Mejer: Yeah, for sure. So at the moment I do PR in the cannabis space, [00:01:00] but taking a little bit of a, of a rewind I got started in, in public and media relations and a little bit of thought leadership development around 2011, 2012. But I was working in the book publishing space at the time.
[00:01:12] So I was working with nonfiction business book authors. Launching their books and at a boutique agency that I worked for at the time, we essentially just did a PR campaign to launch them, kind of build up their authority, their credibility, their expertise, and shine, a positive spotlight on that. But about three, I would say three years into that.
[00:01:30] I decided to take a trip to a local hemp wellness center here in New York, and just educate myself on cannabis on CBD and how do all these different cannabinoids interact with the body. And I would say about five minutes into my visit, I was just having a great conversation with the shop. And in comes an older gentleman who was suffering from really debilitating tremors.
[00:01:51] And I’ve told this story before he couldn’t even open the door on his own. His wife basically had to open the door. She had to do the talking for him because he couldn’t even control his [00:02:00] body or formulate sentences. The tremors were so severe. And long story short, the owner was just like, Hey, listen, I, you know, I had this one tincture specifically that I think could really make a significant impact and a difference on this situation.
[00:02:14] Feel free to try it out. If you want, make yourselves comfortable, hanging out for five to 10 minutes, see how you feel and we’ll take it from there. And so I’m watching all of this go on. I kind of took a step back, but I’m watching all of this take place. And after he took the team. What felt like maybe two minutes and all of a sudden it was like a light switch.
[00:02:32] He regained control of his body. Tremor subsided from what it seems like, maybe like 70%, 80%. And all of a sudden he was able to talk again. And the first words that came out of his mouth were I need the biggest bottle of whatever shit it was. You just gave me. And that was like the coolest moment, but it was, and I get goosebumps every time I tell that story.
[00:02:51] But at that moment, I was like, you know what? I love what I’m doing. I love business. I, I personally am like a, like a personal growth, personal development [00:03:00] junkie. So I love that world of books. But I felt so drawn to putting a positive spotlight on people like that. Shop owner, making a positive impact on other people through the use of cannabinoids or cannabis based products that instantly I was hooked.
[00:03:15] And I just decided to transition over from that world over into cannabis. And so I still take that same framework and that those modalities, but I just decided to bring them over into cannabis. And and now we’re almost three years in and it’s just, it’s been one hell of.
[00:03:30] Bryan Fields: And I love hearing that story.
[00:03:31] So I want to kind of talk more about that, right? You’re you’re, you’re making the pivot into cannabis, obviously in New York, as Carolyn was saying we’re a little bit behind. So what does the surrounding people in your life say when you’re like, Hey, I’m pivoting my life. I’m moving into cannabis. What’s the natural kinda conversation.
[00:03:48] Like,
[00:03:49] Mike Mejer: so at first I knew that it wouldn’t be a good reaction. It would be like, oh, like, what are you doing? It kind of just seems like you’re going off into this crazy direction. So I didn’t really talk too much about it. [00:04:00] I just did it. And I was like, I think the work is going to speak for itself. I just have to do it.
[00:04:05] There was a little bit of blind faith, a little bit of a risk, but something in me was like, no, you can do it. So I did it and things were really starting to take off. And that’s when I started to talk about it a little bit more with, you know, friends, family, people in New York. And at first they were kind of.
[00:04:19] A little bit taken back by it, but then they were also like very, very intrigued. And as you know, now, New York is starting to get on the legalization bandwagon. And now when I bring it up in conversation, Everybody’s like what, like, tell me more about this. I need to know more about it. So just as, as like a cannabis culture in the state of New York, it’s really cool to see how much it’s progressed from like two, three years ago to where it was like still very taboo.
[00:04:44] And it’s still a little bit taboo depending who you talk to, but now people are kind of like, Wait. So like, tell me more like what’s going on in this whole, like weed world. So it’s cool to see that shift happening.
[00:04:56] Bryan Fields: You have a shift in, in, in about two years has just been absolutely crazy. [00:05:00] At first, my parents were, were telling people and then they were like, the responses were really mixed and now people are asking questions every time, you know, I see this product or I don’t sleep I’m in pain.
[00:05:10] Like what, what can I do? Where can I start? I mean, it is all over the board, but I think the best part. The kind of curious folks are here. People are really excited to get started. And as you were saying, New York is finally waking up for what’s going to go on. So let’s start about that conversation when you’re having conversations with people in the space, you know, what’s a typical conversation, like from like an educational standpoint, where do you try to guide them?
[00:05:33] What information do you think it’s really important for people to know that are, that are maybe newer to the.
[00:05:39] Mike Mejer: Yeah, I would. So there’s there’s, there are two conversations that I typically have, and it might be somebody who’s just new to using cannabis based products. And the other conversation is there’s somebody who’s new to the industry and they want to break out in it.
[00:05:53] And I think. For the industry, part of that question, it’s I always emphasize relationships and I know my [00:06:00] business is based on relationships, just being in PR, but so many other businesses, whether it’s compliance extraction, even like CPG products, every single CEO or founder of a company who’s doing well, we’ll all.
[00:06:15] Tell you, if you ask them, you know, what’s been one of the keys to your success it’s relationships and having strong bridges that are built on a foundation of trust, because I almost feel like maybe about five years ago, a lot of people came into, into the cannabis industry from outside industries and they promised a lot of folks, the world charge them a hell of a lot of.
[00:06:38] Didn’t deliver bounced. And so now that that leaves a sour taste in a lot of people’s mouths when they see new people coming in. And so what I always say is do your best to just build trust, build rapport, and play the long game, because there is no other game. People in cannabis are very keen to picking up on people who want to come in, try to make a quick buck and then get out.
[00:06:59] [00:07:00] So if you’re, if you think you’re going to be able to put one past these. It ain’t going to happen. And so come into cannabis with a, with a long-term mindset and focus on relationships, and that’s going to help you build out your network, build out, you know, the teams that you want, the talent that you want to attract to your company, or maybe get you in the door with one of your first clients where you can then build that.
[00:07:20] Different case studies or build out a portfolio of success. So for me, it’s always been relationships and that’s one thing that I’ll always preach because that’s one thing that a lot of people who I have respect for that I’ve seen succeed, they have always told me the same thing and it’s worked out very well for me.
[00:07:35] So from an industry standpoint, I would say. From the other conversations where people are getting into products and they don’t know where to start on the THC side of things. Don’t just read the back of a product label and be like, oh, this has 33%. This is going to be amazing. You might have the worst experience of your life and that’s okay.
[00:07:53] But it’s not all about the THC. It’s about all the other cannabinoids, the terpene makeup. And so that’s one thing I always stress to people who [00:08:00] are, who are kind of breaking into two cannabis products and trying them out for the first. I really love what
[00:08:04] Bryan Fields: you said about their relationships. And I’ve learned that incredibly fast of how important the value of this is at a whole nother level.
[00:08:12] And I think this is, you know, this is where you’ve excelled for so long is, is I can’t tell you how many times people have opened up doors for us just based on relationships and for her kind of playing the long game. So kind of go on that calendar, you know, expand on that company.
[00:08:28] Kellan Finney: Yeah. I mean, I think Ali’s right, like your network is your net worth, right?
[00:08:32] As far as everyone has the saying goes or a motto, if you will. But I think in cannabis, especially it’s, it’s a little more prevalent just because we all have like a common enemy, which is that it’s federally illegal and we’re all kind of pushing towards changing the cultural stigma. So it creates all of those factors that we’re all kind of fighting together.
[00:08:53] Yeah. There’s competition between brands and whatnot. We’re all fighting the same battles of trying to get safe banking, trying [00:09:00] to federal legalization. So that creates this community, if you will. And I think that like finding the right people in that community is just going to strengthen your business so much greater than like trying to just fight everyone in the industry like you would in other spaces, if you will.
[00:09:14] I know that’s not the best, like the cleanest analogy, if you will, but in cannabis, I think it’s a lot more important to have. Or you should put more emphasis on your network and the people that you kind of interact with and those relationships, because it’s a long game, right? Like, no, one’s getting rich quick and the media wants you to believe otherwise, I guess, but like, no, one’s getting rich quick.
[00:09:36] And like, if you’re really in cannabis, because you love the plant and. Kind of planted your flag where you think it like that story you told Mike, like, that’s a beautiful story. Why, why the plants should be available to the masses? You know what I mean? And there’s so many other medicinal benefits to it.
[00:09:52] And an X, Y, Z, from that perspective, and people are in the industry just to make money, are not going to make the right decisions that are going [00:10:00] to help the community achieve its goals. Right. People that cut corners. I mean, you saw this with vacate, right? Like people were cutting corners because they were cutting their distance.
[00:10:10] Into vape pens because they wanted to make more money. And that then created this entire crisis within the industry that almost crippled it. And so, like, we all understand that, like, we all have to be in this for the same reasons and do the right thing in order to win this way, bigger battle. That’s bigger than any one company in terms of changing the global opinion surrounding cannabis and its safety.
[00:10:35] Bryan Fields: So let’s kind of dive into your company. What’s a common conversation you’re having with your clients.
[00:10:41] Mike Mejer: Yeah. Great question. So with, with new clients or people that, that come to me, a lot of times that conversation starts out with, Hey, listen, we’ve accomplished X, Y, Z, and they’ll usually list out, you know, a number of accolades or really, really big game-changing achievements that the company’s done [00:11:00] internally, or maybe the impact that it’s made on a particular focus group in the.
[00:11:04] And then their main question is, you know, how do we get this out there? How do we tell our story? We have something here, but we just don’t know how to actually put it together and then get it out there and amplify that awareness. So that’s typically how conversations start and the, the typical day-to-day conversations with clients are just staying up to date on what’s happening in terms of business development.
[00:11:24] What new partnerships are forming, what new partnerships. What are needed to be formed in order to kind of like take things to the next level, and then just getting an understanding of where they are who they are, what they do and why they do it and where they want to go. And once we have that narrative built in and figured out at that point, it’s really I’m off to the races and I’m connecting with editors, reporters, journalists, a podcast host just like yourself.
[00:11:50] To find out who is covering certain pockets of the industry and who would be a valuable connection to cover their story or cover a new [00:12:00] business development, or maybe even do a executive profile on somebody. Who’s really got an interesting vantage point. That can share their perspective on it, through a lens that nobody else has in the industry.
[00:12:12] So a lot of connecting the dots, a lot of introductions, a lot of strategic thinking. And a lot of times the calls are kind of like brainstorm, bring picking sessions from my end. And I’ll just have a list of, you know, five to 10 questions where I’m like, Hey, listen, I don’t mean for this to sound like an interview, but.
[00:12:28] Tell me, like, where are you at with this? Where are you at with this? And then that just opens up so many different doors for me to go out there and connect those dots and make those introductions.
[00:12:37] Bryan Fields: Like when you’re trying to pitch some of your clients that sometimes there’s this, the cannabis stigma where people are a little more hesitant, deep.
[00:12:43] How do you have those conversations?
[00:12:45] Mike Mejer: Yeah. Cannabis focused outlets. Are in it. So they understand cannabis a little bit differently and they probably come from a different place than some of the more mainstream outlets. But I will say it really [00:13:00] helps whether you’re pitching to more mainstream outlets or whether you’re pitching to cannabis focused outlets.
[00:13:05] It really helps when you take a very professional, polished approach. And I don’t need. To be buttoned up when you’re not a buttoned up brand, right. Or like changing who you are or talking differently. That’s not what I mean, but like when you’re sending a pitch, it should be organized. It should be straight to the point.
[00:13:23] Why am I reaching out to you? What is it that I can offer? And this is the number one thing that I want people to always take away. And this is whether they work with me or not. And I always tell them this, when you send a pitch or if you’re talking to somebody what’s. It’s not about you, right? You might bring a lot to the table, but does that even matter to an editor that’s maybe covering extraction, but meanwhile, you’re doing something related to farming.
[00:13:48] There’s there’s no connection there. You might be a great person. That outlet might be killer, but if there’s no connection, there’s nothing in it for them. So I always stress. There has to be something in it for them in order to [00:14:00] make the pitch worthy. Otherwise you’re just wasting your time and their time.
[00:14:03] And they’re going to remember that. So that’s, that’s the one thing I always stress to people who want to pitch themselves for earned operations.
[00:14:10] Kellan Finney: I just wanted to give him props for emphasizing the professionalism. I think that’s one thing the industry has been trying to work on for the last five years.
[00:14:17] And it’s always music to my ears when other people are kind of continuing to push that message forward. So that was the only thing I wanted to say.
[00:14:23] Bryan Fields: Go ahead. Right. Why do you think that’s not so prevalent in the
[00:14:27] Kellan Finney: canvas? I don’t know. Honestly, I think that it could be because of just the. The demographic of individuals that I jumped into the industry.
[00:14:36] And it’s an unbelievable opportunity from an entrepreneur’s perspective. And I think that there’s a fair amount of entrepreneurs in space that were unsuccessful or struggled in other sectors in their life. And they saw cannabis as the. Kind of golden ticket opportunity to be able to start a company and still be able to smoke weed and do all these other things.
[00:14:57] Right. And it turns out that like when you [00:15:00] smoke weed all day, it’s hard to kind of like be organized and professional if you will. And so there, I think that at the beginning there was this kind of like a lot of people get in, at least from my experience, a lot of people started a weed company and they’re in being a weed company and they’re like, oh, well now I’m a.
[00:15:15] Weed company, so I can just smoke weed all day and then I’m just stoned all day. And it’s like, it turns out it’s hard to run a company when you’re just stoned all day, you know what I mean? Or at least like be professional about it. And so I think that, that and again, this is like, I’m not, I don’t want to group everyone into this category, right.
[00:15:31] This is just like a significant portion of individuals at the beginning of. Of legalization. I think that was the case. But over the course of the last five years, it has changed significantly. You know what I mean? And I think it’s because of people like Mike continuing to push that message forward because it turns out it’s a lot easier to do business with people.
[00:15:48] If they’re they’re organized, if they have their thoughts together, if they know what they want, like all of those things. So I think that that could be why I’m just speculating. Or do you have any opinions on that, Brian? [00:16:00]
[00:16:00] Bryan Fields: No, I’d be speculating as well. At least from a communication standpoint, like Mike was saying, I think some of these established journalists are expecting like a normal standard pitch when they get these recipients.
[00:16:11] So when, when people come with a different style, it’s not going to resonate as well as right. There’s going to have to be this molding of the two industry. Sure. You can do these different styles in cannabis. You can. All day, if you want it. I mean, at the end of the day, you know, there’s like a adherence to business practices that is the standard across the space.
[00:16:30] And the one thing is respect others’ time, trust, relationships. And when you’re going to pitch something, make sure it’s valuable, make sure that you do a little due diligence to make sure you’re pitching correctly. Because I can’t tell you how many times we’ve had conversations with people who come to us and they’re like, yeah, I just want to run like ads on this, or I want to do this.
[00:16:47] And it’s like, that’s great. But like, have you kind of thought through the. What cannabis is a lot of things. There are additional challenges in cannabis from a marketing sense. And, and Mike, I want to go back to you on this because I’m curious as if with some of the [00:17:00] first time founders, they approach you and they’re like, Hey, like let’s take this approach.
[00:17:03] And you’re like, Hey, sorry about that. But like in cannabis, we can’t do X, Y, and Z. Do you have those conversations at all?
[00:17:09] Mike Mejer: Yeah. I mean, I’ve had every conversation under the. And that conversation typically goes over pretty well because I’ll always preface it with being like I’m here to offer you just what I’ve experienced and based on that experience and based on some of the results good and bad.
[00:17:26] I just want to share this information with you, whatever you do with. Like at the end of the day, like your brand, your company, like your business, that’s your baby. And I totally respect that and I get it. So at the end of the day, like you are in your driver’s seat and you can do whatever it is. But if you ask me, I would advise against it because of XYZ and nine times out of 10 people are cool with it and they respect it.
[00:17:48] And. They take it and they run with it and sometimes they may be like, Hey, that’s a great idea. So does that mean that we can maybe do this or do a play on this? And I love those conversations, right? Because that means that we’re getting somewhere. And a lot of times I [00:18:00] learned so many new things just by having those conversations and my opening up those cans of worms.
[00:18:05] I welcome those conversations. But one thing that I want to just to kind of, kind of go back on real quick and this distresses, the importance of being professional and organized, I reached out to an editor of a pretty big industry publication. And the reason that I have a good relationship with them is because of one pitch that I sent last.
[00:18:27] And the response that I got was it was something along the lines of, wow. I can’t believe how organized your email was. I really appreciate it. And I wish that more publicists were organized. Like you isn’t that incredible. Yeah. And the reason I share that, the only reason I share that is because the response I got had nothing to do with the, with the client, with any.
[00:18:52] With any questions about the products? It was just because my email was organized. It had bullet points, it [00:19:00] was short and sweet. It had a very simple call to action at the end, took me maybe five minutes to write up. And to this day I have a great relationship with them and it’s all because of that one simple thing.
[00:19:13] Had nothing to do with cannabis. It had nothing to do with the topic. It was just a simple matter of being organized, putting together a really good, simple email. And that’s it. So just going back to like the professionalism, that was one example that I wanted to share with you guys and your listeners, because stuff like that is priceless.
[00:19:30] And working with somebody who kind of operates like that, versus somebody who scattered in all over the place. People are going to want to work with you a lot more. If you just have your shit together, sharing the
[00:19:40] Kellan Finney: opportunity in this industry. That’s what is your, that’s a USP right there.
[00:19:46] Bryan Fields: So let’s, let’s keep going on that besides organization and techniques like that for those listeners out there who want to be in this space, but they’re not afforded the opportunity to kind of partner with someone like yourself.
[00:19:56] Mike, what’s a concept or an idea that they [00:20:00] should be aware of that they’re not thinking about right now. Just based on your.
[00:20:03] Mike Mejer: Yeah. So you want to make sure that you’re telling your brand’s narrative before somebody else does, because chances are, if they do it before you do, it’s going to be incorrect or they’re not going to nail it down.
[00:20:12] And a lot of times that has to deal with marketing and branding and marketing and branding are almost like sisters or cousins to public relations and media relations, but being able to kind of formulate that narrative. Have it down, pat, and then take it and go on a podcast and be able to clearly explain it in a way that’s very easy for everybody to understand and run with, or to write an article about the pocket within the industry that you or your brand is, is actively working in doing those things.
[00:20:44] And starting with those things is a great place to just start telling your brand. Now, Building authority, building trust, building credibility, and all of this just goes back to none of this is, is short-term ROI. I mean, sometimes it does result in a phone call or an [00:21:00] email or a couple of new leads coming in and that’s great, but all of this is just like brick by brick, by brick.
[00:21:06] And it’s a long-term play, but after a certain amount of time of doing it, even just after a year or two of doing this, you’re going to look back in the mirror and be like, wow, I started here and now I’m here. And a lot of this has to do. With the credibility and the authority that I’ve built up over time.
[00:21:21] So starting with podcast, guest articles, pitching yourself to editors or to writers and offering your insight because you know that they cover certain topics and you could potentially offer them some insight as well as their audience, some insight that, you know, they value and they’re interested in and just sending emails and being friendly about it.
[00:21:41] And if they say. Offer them, you know, well, Hey, I appreciate the response, but at the same token, if there is anybody that you’re looking to connect with, please feel free to reach out because I’m more than happy to connect you with them. If I happen to have an expert in that category in my network. So even if it doesn’t benefit you today, being a [00:22:00] resource and an asset to somebody is going to benefit them.
[00:22:03] And in turn they’ll thank you for it down the road. And just repeatedly doing those actions pays dividends, especially in. Brand takes
[00:22:10] Bryan Fields: so much time to build that credibility and that trust, but you’re right. Once you get to that level of trust, people see a symbol, a color of font, and immediately associate something to it.
[00:22:23] And if you can associate or elicit some sort of positive affirmation towards that, you’ve done something that many people really aspire to do. But that’s not easy. And that our part is that everyone wants to do that, but are not willing to put in that grit and that consistency over time to build that.
[00:22:40] So, you know, continuing on that route, Mike, like when people are, are shaping that story and you know, they’re interested in cannabis, like telling that story is so, so delicate balance because a lot of people have interest in being cannabis or want to be in cannabis. Loved the plant loves smoking weed, but how do you get down to that truth story is really [00:23:00] art.
[00:23:00] So Mike, is there techniques you can recommend to people that are trying to craft that cannabis?
[00:23:06] Mike Mejer: So, I mean, the story has to be genuine, right? Like you kind of have to look back and, and ask yourself, you know, do you want to be the face of the company or is it just going to be a brand that stands on its own?
[00:23:15] Are you going to support it? And it depends, you know, where you visit a CPG product, are you a consultant? Are you a company that offers services? So a lot of these things come into play and kind of throw wrenches in the, in the nitty gritty. But overall, what I always recommend is identify who your client avatar is.
[00:23:31] So who’s like your ideal client, your dream client. Figuring out their demographics, psychographics. And then from there, write out a list, maybe 10 pain points that they have, and then take another sheet of paper. And then write out what skills and what value propositions you bring to the table, and then just simply connect them and trying to figure out, okay, well, how do I solve this problem for this person?
[00:23:56] And just bridge that gap. And then from there you start to connect the [00:24:00] dots and you figure out, well, how can I connect with my dream clients? How can I connect with the perfect person who could really value from, from this service or this product? And then from there, you can start to kind of go back and be like, well, you know, 30 years in agriculture, that should be a piece of my story.
[00:24:17] And then you kind of just start, you know, going backwards and, and connecting those dots and, and building the house. And that’s really how it all starts. And that’s just a good place to start. And from there, you’ll gain a lot of clarity. It’s, it’s almost kind of, it’s kind of therapeutic in a way, cause you can go back and, and just really see what’s going on and what you’ve done and, and how it all comes full.
[00:24:36] I love that
[00:24:37] Bryan Fields: you shared that. And there’s a client that comes to mind. And I wonder if Kellen’s thinking the same that created this brand and had this product and had this perfect person in their mind. Right. And built this entire story. But then when he priced it, he missed and he missed that. So when we were kind of going through it and he was describing this, this persona person.
[00:24:58] And then you’re like wondering, [00:25:00] you’re like, how can this person afford this, this, this high-end product. So I wonder Kellen is like, I suggest we start at the end part and work backwards, or the other way is like, you want identify certain product category and you know, it’s going to be on, let’s say the higher end.
[00:25:16] You then have to evolve the marketing around that because not, not everyday consumer can afford a super high end product. Is, is that the same approach you take? Yeah.
[00:25:25] Kellan Finney: I mean, at the end of the day, that’s the approach we always take with our clients is to start at the IMG. I mean, in kind of what the best case scenario looks like, and then try to work backwards from there.
[00:25:36] Cause like a lot of people they’ll hear the buzz and they’ll be like, I want to do this. And they’re like, look, if I build this spreadsheet and I make this number really large, I’m going to retire two years. You’re like, know like, you know, That’s just not how this works. And so working backwards is always what I’ve found is that at least the cleanest way to like set expectations.
[00:25:58] Cause I think that’s a [00:26:00] huge mistake. A lot of people make in the industry is kind of just not having proper expectations. Right. And so, so my, I have a question for you how often. When you’re working with your clients, do you come across one that does have that and target avatar or products, and it’s really kind of buttoned up?
[00:26:18] Is that like more so like 60, 40, like, what’s kind of the distribution of the clients that you talked to the, that do have those kinds of things, or at least have thought about the end consumer or the end product and what they want to do with that.
[00:26:31] Mike Mejer: So that’s a really, really good question. Most of the clients that work.
[00:26:36] I have thought through those things numerous times and they’ve nailed it down pretty well. I find that a lot of the people that I actually ended up working with they’ve in order to get to a place where they see value in publicizing their story and getting it out there, they must have already accomplished something pretty significant.
[00:26:55] And when you accomplish something so significant that it’s press worthy, right? Because I always ask, [00:27:00] like what, when you, when you think about a story or something you’re reading online, Right. Like, and so somebody is like, you know, what can we do with the story? Sometimes I’ll just be like, you know, congratulations, like, as an entrepreneur, that’s huge.
[00:27:12] But at the end of the day, like, so what, like, you haven’t done anything yet in the world of like headlines or press or something like that. So you have to be super like conscious of that. I digressed a little bit, but once you’re at the point of seeing the value in PR. You’ve probably already done your homework and you’ve already not just strategized correctly, but you’ve also executed and repeated that execution over and over and over again, to get you to a point where you’re like, okay, we’ve gotten here now to get here.
[00:27:40] We really need to blow this thing up. How do we get more attention and how do we connect with the, with the media and different outlets and, and people like that. So I’m very fortunate to be in that position and to be working with folks like that, but I’m sure it is very. And it’s something that I think a lot of people just kind of put that to the side when they start whatever endeavor as an entrepreneur.
[00:27:59] And sometimes they kind [00:28:00] of just jump ahead, but you do need to kind of just grab that pen and paper and lay out those blocks and ask yourself, is this even viable? Right? Does it, does my ideal client even have the funds? To subscribe to something like this or to pay for it or, or whatever. It might be.
[00:28:14] Great question though. I love it. I think
[00:28:16] Bryan Fields: that’s a really good point. So I guess for the people who are on the fence and wondering if PR is a good resource for them, you know, is there a couple markers or thought-through checklists that you would recommend for someone on the fence?
[00:28:31] Mike Mejer: Yeah. So for anybody on the fence, I always start with this and I start with this because there’s a lot of confusion between advertising and PR advertising is when.
[00:28:40] You desire for the end goal to be for people to click on something or see something and then go buy your product. So you see an ad on Instagram, or you see an ad on a billboard. You just want people, you know, go to the dispensary, go to the dispensary, or, you know, by this tincture, by this tincture. So that’s the end results [00:29:00] or what people desire when they really need advertising.
[00:29:03] But with PR you want the. To be when somebody consumes a piece of content, whether it’s a written article, whether it’s a podcast, you want people to walk away after they’ve consumed it and say, whoa, that’s. Two totally different things. Two totally different things that they accomplish. And so I always put that, disclaimer, if you will, like very, very early on in conversations, because if you’re looking for advertising, like I’m not going to be your guy.
[00:29:30] And if I try to convince you that that PR is what you need, you’re going to hate me because you’re not going to get the same results as advertising and vice versa. Right? So some people think that they need advertising when they really need PR. It goes the other way around as well. So those are two very clear distinctions PR you want people to get the importance of it advertising.
[00:29:47] You just want to drive traffic or directly drive sales and see if you can get a dollar for dollar ROI.
[00:29:53] Bryan Fields: So important. And the alignment of what the true goal is of all the parties involved to make sure that everyone’s on the same age, because you’re [00:30:00] right. If they come to you, Mike, and they’re like, Hey, let’s do this because I want to increase all of my website traffic.
[00:30:05] And you’re like, Swinging a miss there, sir. Like, I don’t really know that’s what we’re going to hope for. I mean, that’s tough. And sometimes, you know, we’ve had instances where we had a client that came through and fought. He wanted one thing and realize midway through the journey, he needed something completely different and that’s a really challenging approaches.
[00:30:24] We’re there to kind of help them and guide them through some of these, these really challenging processes. And, you know, it’s really important to understand what the end goal is and then align with that and work backwards and make sure. You’re creating a stepping stone. And every step you do is in order to achieve that goal.
[00:30:40] Totally. So I read one of your recent articles and I want to pick your brain on this. Cause I was, I was really excited about cannabis companies that prioritize this feature are typically more profit. And before we dive into that, I want to let you know that I was clicking that a hundred out of a hundred times before, because it’s a very enticing title.
[00:30:59] So [00:31:00] I give you a ton of prompts on the copy there, because I was like, I need to read this. I was like, ah, I have to read this now. So kind of dive in, take us through the process on, on, on creating a title like that. Is there like, is it intended? Like, can you share some ideas on that? Because I think it’s brilliantly
[00:31:15] Mike Mejer: done.
[00:31:16] Yeah. Thank you for that. So anytime there’s a. Whether it be the subject line of an email, right? That’s what a subject line. I was going to say subject title, but whether it’s a, whether it’s a subject line or whether it’s a title of an article, your, your goal is to always just get people’s attention at the, at the very least, because if they’re not going to see it, if they’re just going to blow past it, what good is the content that you spend hours developing on the inside?
[00:31:41] Whether it’s the body of an email or an actual article. And then I always like to back up. The title to make sure that it’s not considered clickbait or somebody clicks on it and then says, yeah, that’s that, that was a good title, but this is just awful. Like this has nothing to do with the title the way I like to make sure that that doesn’t happen is [00:32:00] to make sure that I can quantify, or I have done research that quantifies.
[00:32:06] Whatever statement it is that I’m making. So that article that you’re referring to, I think I wrote about compliance in that one, right? Yeah. And the reason I
[00:32:14] Bryan Fields: wanted to bring that up was because when I was kind of diving into it, the subject line, I’m glad you brought that up. The subject lines goal, at least in my opinion, is to sell the open, right.
[00:32:24] Is to get someone to open the article that email the subject is sole focus. And then the emails body is to really backup exactly like you’re saying, but ultimately it’s to take person through the. And then to sell the click at the bottom. And if everything is not in a line. You’re right. People immediately think clickbait and we’ve had conversations in journaling, Kellen, and I, about that approach, fundamentally, we differ sometimes on the words to include subject because he sends me a title.
[00:32:52] I’m like, dude, that is clickbait. And like, I would click that. No doubt, but it doesn’t, it doesn’t say what’s inside and he’s like, it’s [00:33:00] a good subject and right. There’s no debating on that. So it’s a really hard balance to kind of mix the duke Kaelin. What’s your thoughts on that?
[00:33:09] Kellan Finney: I do, I do send you a lot of subject lines or it’s just probably clickbait, but I’m trying to get engagement.
[00:33:14] Right. And so I think it’s, it’s a hard line to walk, but I do see the other side of that coin because I get emails that are clickbait and I open them up and I’m like, this is just spam. And then the next time I see an email from that provider, I’m like instantly delete block. Like I played this game before.
[00:33:34] I don’t want anything to do with it. And so, like I do, there’s a huge importance from a building a brand perspective that needs to be placed on those kinds of situations. And, and I’m glad that I have you there to kind of filter some of my more clickbait subject line.
[00:33:51] Bryan Fields: I mean, I’ve definitely click it, right.
[00:33:52] There’s no doubt about it, but go right. I’ll be upset after. And one interesting thing that I’ve learned in my experience, at least. Sometimes [00:34:00] it’s okay to have a dull subject when the value inside is expected already. So we’ve kind of a beat, a couple of emails, subjects, and we’ve taken, I’ve taken the aggressive approach and like selling the information inside.
[00:34:12] And it it’s the term, a majority of our openers and whether or not that was just random occurrence or certain subs. I was surprised to find out that a dull subject line sometimes of just embodying of generalization of insight. Sometimes can do the job, which was weird for me as a trained marketer to believe that.
[00:34:30] But that’s my experience. Mike, have you found something similar or a different approach, you know, share some ideas on that?
[00:34:35] Mike Mejer: Yeah, it’s super interesting because I’m sure you guys have seen subject lines or like ads where like the top headline is something like, you know, how I made it $5 million in 30 days and you can too, right.
[00:34:50] Awesome. Like, let me buy your course. You don’t think any of those
[00:34:53] Bryan Fields: are real, you’re really packing money. Twitter out there do be careful there.
[00:34:59] Mike Mejer: We got to talk after the [00:35:00] show, man. I mean, that’s, that’s probably a bad example, but like something like that is kind of what I would consider. Like, yeah. That’s like a, that’s like a sexy headline.
[00:35:09] That’s very like general for the most part, but it’s okay to not have this, this, this big flashy time square billable. Type of headline. If you know that your audience is not necessarily ones to offer something like that. Like if you’re talking to, to very high-level executives or people who are maybe in a particular niche that, I mean, I’d like to be blunt, like, I don’t know.
[00:35:32] Maybe it’s just a little bit of like a boring sector of the industry who knows. So like, you don’t have to try to come up with all these, like bling-bling flashy subject lines because they don’t even want that. So like sometimes you do have to kick it up a notch, but then other times you also have to get a good understanding for who it is you’re talking to.
[00:35:49] And that, that I think is the most important part. So like sometimes you might just catch somebody’s attention. I mean, Brian, even like you said, the subject line might seem dull, but then when you open up the article or you open up the email and you’re [00:36:00] like, man, this was, this was a great piece of content.
[00:36:03] And it’s not because it was flashing, but because it told you exactly what you’re going to expect, and then it was jam packed with more than you even anticipated. And I think that’s key to getting people to not just open it, but then to also consume it and then gain your trust or kind of be like, you know, what, I’m kind of excited for next week’s newsletter.
[00:36:20] So I think depending on who your audience is and kind of what they expect and what they want and what kind of world they live in and what they’re used to reading. That should also give you a little bit of a direction as to where you point your compass in terms of your, your copywriting. It all
[00:36:37] Bryan Fields: goes back to understanding exactly who your demographic is and then creating and crafting an experience completely for them.
[00:36:43] So, Mike, since you’ve been in the cannabinoid industry, what has been your biggest misconception?
[00:36:49] Mike Mejer: Ooh, that’s a really good question. My biggest misconception is that because the industry moves so fast, I thought that everybody did everything super fast. [00:37:00] So like for example, sometimes you wake up and there’s total like 180 news regarding, you know, maybe like a bill for legalization or there’s, there’s some kind of like advancement that you were like, well, that came out of nowhere.
[00:37:10] Awesome. But I totally came out of nowhere just because the industry moves like that and moves that quickly does not mean that everybody that you’re going to work. Also moves that quickly. And so that kind of caught me by surprise, but understanding how people work and what their turnaround times are and things like that.
[00:37:26] That’s a very important thing to understand and respect also, especially when you’re collaborating with different vendors or different people on your team that might be in a different location if you guys are remote. So just understanding people and understanding that everybody’s got stuff going on, whether it’s good or bad, but understanding that not everybody’s going to move as fast or as slow as you, that’s going to help you with your expectations a lot from other people in this.
[00:37:48] That’s good advice.
[00:37:49] Kellan Finney: So
[00:37:49] Bryan Fields: before we do predictions, we ask all of our guests, if you could sum up your experience in a main takeaway or lesson learned to pass onto the next generation,
[00:37:58] Mike Mejer: what would it be? [00:38:00] Relationship capital is incredibly. I was going to say is more valuable than gold, but with the way Bill’s going right now, I don’t know.
[00:38:07] But then it relationship capital, like stack that. Like the same way you might be, be stacking up cash or Bitcoin, or like you might be buying real estate investment properties, like stack up the relationship capital because that pays dividends in ways that you could never even imagine. And you can’t do things alone.
[00:38:25] You could be, you could be a solo preneur. You could be, you know, a, a one or two man operation, but like at the end of the day, let’s face it. Like, there’s three of us on this, this this podcast right now. You guys have done, you know, how many episodes already, like these, like all these different people, even though they might not be on your payroll, even though they might not be direct vendors, but like your paths cross.
[00:38:47] And so people have, they will help you get to where you want to go. As long as you help them get to where they want to go. Relationship capital well said, I would leave it at that
[00:38:59] Bryan Fields: prediction. [00:39:00] Silly prediction, but it’s a more of a theory. Mike, what is the best way for cannabis companies to add value to their organizations marketing wise right now that most are not doing
[00:39:13] Mike Mejer: start a podcast yelling.
[00:39:16] Kellan Finney: That’s a good one, but say the question again about marketing technique.
[00:39:20] Bryan Fields: Yeah. What can they be doing right now to further their cause wherever they are in the cannabis space,
[00:39:27] Kellan Finney: I’m going to go with. Consumer-facing brands and I’m going to say. More traditional marketing techniques. And I think as more white label brands have entered the space, they’ve tried to employ like other marketing techniques that are successful in the 21st century, right.
[00:39:47] From a consumer packaged goods perspective. But I think that every brand I’ve seen become successful has been. Very very involved in kind of a, like, almost like a grassroots movement. [00:40:00] Right? So like hosting vendor days, like becoming friends with the budtenders, right? Like all of these things are just, I don’t think that they’re executed as cleanly as they could be.
[00:40:10] And that most brands kind of undervalue that I think personally, and they’re not investing enough time into. The relationships, if you will, Brian, what’s your thoughts? This is your wheelhouse. I know.
[00:40:22] Bryan Fields: And I, and I don’t have to prepare an answer. I know, but I, I mean, every time I I’ve, we’ve, we’ve done a hundred of these and I’m 99 out of a hundred times.
[00:40:34] My answer has been stolen. So to have a few prepared answer, sometimes my second answer has been stolen. So podcast is great. One. It is exhausting, it’s tiring and it’s harder than I ever realized it could possibly. I think being authentic would be so valuable in that one idea that came to mind when you guys were talking, was like getting an inside, look behind some of these companies and what goes on.
[00:40:55] I think it’s so fascinating from like a documentary standpoint, the [00:41:00] industry is moving so fast and the things that are going on are so. Are ridiculous because these companies are scaling. They’re trying to build out these, these obstacles. They’re dealing with ups and downs throughout the day. They’re looking for employees.
[00:41:12] They’re doing vendor days. I think if we could get an inside look, if one of these MSOE, one of these smaller companies just took a simple documentary approach. It was kind of even an inside look of what’s going on. What are these companies? I think that would build up such brand trust and understanding just by seeing how it works.
[00:41:30] And I think you’d be able to deliver different type of value than you could. In a non traditional style approach, right? It’s not going to be that. Let’s just write a hundred articles in a hundred days, but we’re creating a piece of content. Like that would be different. It’d be unique. And it would be really special because it would give perspective to an industry that doesn’t have a behind the scenes approach yet.
[00:41:52] And I think it would be awesome to see. I mean, I’d be fascinated to watch that even being in this space and I can only imagine for all. We’re intrigued by it. Who wants to [00:42:00] get involved? Like how cool it must be to see the inside of facility. I mean, we’re fortunate enough where we have partners send us photos from their facility and it’s mind blowing and it looks fake some of the photos, we got a photo yesterday and I was like, this doesn’t even look like a real photo.
[00:42:14] And then I was like, I want to send this to someone, but I wasn’t sure if I’m allowed to just based on relationships, but just having that perspective. I mean, it was one of the coolest photos I’ve seen and just having the ability to kind of see that in. I think it would be so
[00:42:26] Mike Mejer: captivating. One of my clients actually yesterday texted me a picture of some new crop that they have on their land.
[00:42:33] And and I’m on the call and I’m just like, just, you know, like in the flow of the day. And I’m just like, all right, cool. Whatever, like, oh, nice. All right, cool. Well that we got this, we got that. And then I get off the phone and I’m like, this is my job. Like people sending me pictures of like fields of.
[00:42:49] All these plants. And like, I’m getting like, up-close pictures of like different buds and stuff like that. And like, if I was in high school and you saw my phone, you’d be like, send me to the [00:43:00] principal’s office. But like now, like you see my phone and you’re like, Tell us about this. Like how is the industry in New York?
[00:43:09] And it just goes back to kind of what we talked a little bit about before, how like, how things are changing and how it’s just so cool that, that, you know, the three of us here could even be in a position to where this is our, this is our livelihood and this is kind of what we do day in and day out. So I always think it’s cool just to kind of have a moment of gratitude for the fact that this is what we do.
[00:43:29] So it’s pretty cool
[00:43:30] Bryan Fields: stuff and it’s pretty awesome. And I think for those who are interested in getting into the space, but are hesitant because. Of whatever reason. I mean, you gotta be in it to win it. And cannabis is still in its infancy stage. And I know we’ve said this repeatedly, but like, think about it for a second and actually realize like, it is still federally legal.
[00:43:47] We still cannot buy legal products here in New York yet soon. But I mean, just from a perspective of where we are, we have so much where to go and now is the best time to get in if you weren’t in yesterday. So Mike, for our followers, [00:44:00] a want to get in touch, they want to learn more. Where can they read?
[00:44:02] Mike Mejer: Yeah connect with me on LinkedIn and that’s probably my favorite platform. And then if you want to visit the website green lane communication.com, or you can send me an email [email protected] and I’ll get back to you pretty quickly. I’m always up for a good cannabis chat.
[00:44:22] Bryan Fields: Well, thanks so much for your time.
[00:44:23] Michael, look forward to talking to you soon. You too.
