Editors’ Note: This is the transcript version of the podcast. Please note that due to time and audio constraints, transcription may not be perfect. We encourage you to listen to the podcast, embedded below if you need any clarification. We hope you enjoy!
Bryan and Kellan sit down with Chris Walsh, the CEO of MJ Biz Daily in today’s episode.
As a former business journalist and reporter editor, Chris Walsh has extensive knowledge of the business world. Today he provides insights into demonstrating the credibility of the people and business of Cannabis.
Listen today to hear:
- How the Cannabis Industry started and is still developing
- Cannabis business uncertainty
- DEA raids on legal cannabis dispensaries
- Creating MJBizCon, a professional cannabis conference and expo
Chris Walsh set out to prove that the Cannabis industry is a legitimate professional business. He oversees the editorial, events, marketing, sales and new products divisions of the largest B2B media, research and trade show/conference company in the global cannabis industry. Visit https://mjbizconference.com/for more information.
[00:00:00] Bryan Fields: This is the dime, dive into the cannabis and hemp industry through trends, insights, predictions, and
tangents. What’s up guys. Welcome back to another episode of the diamond is always about my right hand, man. Tell him Sydney here with me. And this week we’ve got very special guests. Chris Walsh, CEO of MJ biz.
Thanks for taking the time. How are you doing today?
[00:00:22] Chris Walsh: I’m doing well. Thanks for having me on just we just in our busy part of the year. So, you know, trying to stay sane with everything going on.
[00:00:30] Bryan Fields: I can only imagine we’re looking forward to kind of diving into those topics today.
[00:00:34] Kellan Finney: Well doing well, it actually snowed in the mountains last night up above 10,000 feet. So, you know, watch it fall, start and the end of summer, I guess, pretty wild staying positive here out in the,
[00:00:48] Bryan Fields: before we get started. I think it’d be great for our listeners to kind of give some, some background on your history in this space.
[00:00:53] Chris Walsh: Yeah, sure. Way too early to be talking about snow. We’re [00:01:00] not even ready to hear that.
Yeah. I I entered the space in 2011 and I was a business journalist, a reporter and editor at mainstream newspapers covering variety of industries, lived in South Korea and really came back to the U S in 2011 and was kind of contemplating what I wanted to do. The media businesses. Not good and still is not good.
So, you know, I finished up my MBA and these two business women and Cassandra were looking for someone to launch a a publication for the cannabis industry about professional business publication. And so it intrigued me, you know, when I went to South Korea in 2009, there was no medical cannabis industry to speak of in Denver where I live.
And when I came back, two years later, there were more dispensaries than Starbucks. So it was a, it was a real industry that was propping up at that time. And it fascinated me of all the business issues and how this industry was going to gain legitimacy and professionalism. And so we started up in 2011 and eventually added market research [00:02:00] and started doing live events to get people in the industry together.
And that’s kind of what brought us here today as we expanded over the years, but it’s been a wild ride in the, in a decade in this crazy industry. I
[00:02:10] Bryan Fields: can only imagine. So when she approached you with the idea of kind of joining the cannabis space, was there consideration on your side? Were you kind of like I’m ready to dive in or, I mean, take us through that process.
[00:02:20] Chris Walsh: Yeah, that’s, that’s a great question because, you know, if you take yourself back to 2011, a lot of your listeners probably weren’t in the industry then, but you know, it was a very different climate and, you know, the, the stigma and the perceptions around cannabis and marijuana and the normal terms, weed and ganja that people were using, you know, even in the bids.
You know, it was significant. So when this opportunity presented itself, I didn’t really have a lot of hesitation. I don’t come from the cannabis culture. And that was something you couldn’t really say back then, but I’ve obviously, you know, used it and was familiar with it, but it wasn’t steeped in it like a lot of the people in the industry at that time.
But I saw it really as from, from the business side. So I said, Hey, this is [00:03:00] fascinating. What is this? How many times. In a lifetime or a generation does a brand new industry come out of nowhere and crop up. And so I was just fascinated by it. And and it was such in the early days that you know, that it didn’t have a lot of professionalism at that time.
And so honestly, the opportunity and I was ready to do something different that all just, yeah, wait, any sense of what, what is this? Because it was legal in these states and there were businesses operating, but I will tell you, after we started. And I was doing a ton of research on this industry. I did have a fear of like, what if I’m being tracked, you know, I’m, I’m searching marijuana all day and trying to figure out how people are buying it.
And, and, you know, that was a legit concern. Is, is something going to trigger some warning? Who is this dude? You know, is he a dealer or whatever that did cross my mind as well? I think
[00:03:47] Bryan Fields: that’s really valuable for our listeners because I think sometimes we talk so much of the forward approach and not enough of the history.
So I’d want to stay on that topic. You recently had Chris crane on your podcast as CEO, which I really enjoy some of the insights to bringing from that [00:04:00] perspective. And he was sharing how he used to educate buyers. On what to do during DEA rate. Can you kind of shed some light on kind of just what that experience must’ve been like
[00:04:12] Chris Walsh: easy time.
And I agree with your perspective here that for anyone who doesn’t know this, you don’t need a long history lesson, but it’s important to understand how this industry developed. And I think a lot of people overlook that because it really shapes where we’re at today. And how we got here and then how you move forward.
So without knowing that, I think you’re, you’re at a disadvantage if you’re in this industry. So all these people built this up you know, the industry was built on the backs of people taking huge risks and those people are still in the industry, some have left. So, you know, at that time, if you were operating a cannabis business, you were taking a big risk, especially one that touched the plant, which we never did, but we even faced risks.
But at that time there were, the DEA was raiding Dispensaries and cultivation facilities particularly in the west where most of them were, but California went through a big phase of [00:05:00] crackdowns, Montana, Washington, state, Colorado. This was like the number one issue at that time. You know, when you ask people what keeps you up at night?
Then it was like, I hope my place does to get raided by the DEA. And as Chris crane said, consultants would work with companies to say, here’s what you need to do if you get that knock at the door. And so we actually, as a business in late 2011, we weren’t sure where this industry was going. And this, this wave of raids and uncertainty.
Over whether the federal government was actually going to let this industry operate was real and it was significant. And so we kind of pulled back at that time and I actually started researching other like trade media and event ideas outside of cannabis, completely for the company I looked at like Similar thing for veterinarians and doctors and because that’s where we were.
And we were like, we don’t know if there’s a path forward for this industry or for our business. And those rates were a big part of it. Yeah. I think that’s
[00:05:54] Bryan Fields: so incredible. And Kellen, I want you to kind of shed some light on that because that’s just not a conversation that we have with our clients, right.
[00:06:00] Prepaying for DEA. How, how substantial of a difference is that? And like, how would we even communicate that to client? Yeah.
[00:06:06] Kellan Finney: I mean, I think those days are over. I remember speaking with a lawyer even more recently, a couple of years back, and they said the DEA just isn’t interested in that kind of activity anymore.
My exposure. I remember I went to the, my first Emerald scientific conference in San Diego. It was the third one, I think. And there is an individual who is speaking on extraction and I was watching the presentation. And next thing you know, he’s talking about how they had to evacuate. Their entire facility, because the DEA showed up and they were loading inventory into you, haul mans and you haul trucks trying to save the livelihood of the company.
Right. And so this is back in 2015 and it was a medical market in California. And so they were able to operate as a medical company, but that’s the whole state, federal legality issue in that dynamic, if you will, that still existed. And so it was just phenomenal because I was sitting in there. Beautiful conference room, right?
And [00:07:00] at a resort in San Diego, talking hardcore science. And next thing you know, he’s discussing how to save. The only way that they were able to save the company is to pull you haul trucks up and start loading totes of candidates that that was meant for extraction and to produce products for medical patients that need their medicine.
And he’s trying to save his company and all these things by avoiding the DEA. And they showed images of the DEA with like front loaders pouring, just tons of product at the end of the trashcan. So it’s phenomenal that we’ve come as far as we’ve had in the last six years from the DEA completely destroying everything with tractors to now cannabis is prevalent all over the entire country.
Yeah. Almost monthly, a new state legalizes it on the east coast. So it’s pretty wild to see how much it’s changed over the
[00:07:50] Chris Walsh: last six years. Yeah. That’s a remarkable shift. And as you said, even in six years level on 10. Yeah.
[00:07:56] Bryan Fields: So let’s kind of stay in that same timeframe. MJ biz [00:08:00] con based on the research I did, which was just some, some really Googling 12 was the first conference.
Yeah.
[00:08:06] Chris Walsh: Yep, absolutely. That light. So it’s in that time period that we’ve been discussing. And, you know, we, I did a lot of research on the ground research and there were cannabis conferences. They were, it was all medical at that point. So everything. You know, a medical cannabis expo or conference and you’d go to it.
And the show floor was a bunch of people selling bongs and rolling papers. And there were women in bikinis, like walking around the products and they’d have, you know, a guest band and, you know, some kind of act that really resonates with the stoner crowd or wherever it was a it wasn’t medical for sure.
Most of them, and it wasn’t really a business trade show for people in the industry, aside from some of these vendors, you know, pedaling bonds. And kind of head shop type goods. So that’s where we saw the need. So we started this conference in Denver in 2012, and we have a background, the owners and other people on the team of running events in other industries.
So we know how to do this, and we could not find a [00:09:00] location that would take us because imagine if those were the events at that time, and you go to a legit event venue and say, Hey, we want to host something here. It conjures up images of everyone smoking everywhere. They can. And Cypress hill playing and people partying and, you know, that’s not what they wanted.
So we, we were able to find a friendly venue that was a former may Sonic lodge. It was a beautiful space, but awkwardly laid out and had a lot of character and they took us in and they let us have our show. And it was surreal because. Here we were in downtown Denver and we’ve always tried to professionalize the industry.
So, you know, I’d give the opening speech. I come in a suit and tie for an industry that’s not used to suit and ties at all. So maybe a little overdressed, but again, we were going for on the other way to say, like, if we’re going to gain as an industry, mainstream recognition, we have to act like it. And it doesn’t mean everyone has to wear a suit or tie or whatever, but we have to recognize that stigma is a big setback for moving this industry forward.
So, you know, it was a very professional [00:10:00] conference and we had media there. We had the associated press and, and some others. You know, headlines out of it. We’re like, wow, this looks like a normal trade show and conference because of dad, because it was business people talking about issues important to them.
And there was an expo hall with technology companies and consulting. And so it was really, really cool. And at that time, you know, we got 400 people and 30 exhibitor booths or whatever you know, roughly, and we thought, thought that was a massive success for us and for the end. Yeah. And,
[00:10:28] Bryan Fields: and for, for those of you who haven’t been, I mean, MJ biz con he’s the event go-to for those who are ever looking to get into space.
I mean, that’s the origin story of we’re keeping an eye on that. That’s how I first got my first taste of the industry was at MJ biz, the eyeopening. And I think to even hear the stories that you were saying, Chris and the end to knowing how far it’s come is crazy now, because I’ve been there two times already, and I’ve seen the massive growth even in the two times.
So I guess my follow-up question to you. How hard is it planning an event that is an exploding [00:11:00] industry like ours. Not only just domestically with your, in the U S but also international. I mean, how do you plan for something that is just an absolute exploding
[00:11:09] Chris Walsh: event we’ve had is as we’ve grown and as the industry has grown, we can’t be everything to everyone.
The MJ biz con is the big industry show, right? And there, there was an appeal to that and that’s needed in any industry. However, the challenge for us has been, how do we stay on top of the needs of the industry? And, you know, as this grows, the cultivation. Yeah, they want the big show. Right. But they also have needs for, Hey, I need to get together with other cultivators or I need to just be in a really focused area.
And you can, you can have that, that same argument across the industry, hemp science, you know, retail, et cetera, et cetera. And so we try to include a lot of elements of that, but that is a difficult thing every year is how do we best serve the industry with a big show? And you can’t go too, too deep, everywhere.
Right. And then it’s too much. So it’s really about prioritizing about staying in touch with. Our audience and the [00:12:00] industry, and that’s an in a fast changing industry, that’s hard to do consistently in a mature industry. You know, you, you know, roughly where things are and you know how to keep tabs on it.
And here it’s like, every state is different and their concerns are different. And a lot of them can’t sell beyond their home markets. So how do you appeal to them and how. Help them network and meet the right people. And so there’s that unique aspect of the cannabis industry is very difficult. And then there’s just the pay planning of giant events in two halls of the convention center in Las Vegas.
And everything that goes into that is huge. And then now you have COVID on top of that, right? So it’s been, it’s been an interesting ride, but you know, this is a big focus of what we do. So it, it eats up all our time and you know, we work through all these challenges. So I really want to
[00:12:42] Bryan Fields: push back on, on what you were saying, because I don’t think like our listeners really understand how hard of a challenge that really is to really segment off the different parts of the interview.
And then be able to dive deeper with some of the really incredible speakers that you have going on. So how does the leadership [00:13:00] team, you know, organize and slash speakers and topics really help attract the industry and say like, here, these are the topics we think are going to be valuable for these areas.
[00:13:11] Chris Walsh: Yeah. It’s a big process. So we have a whole conference content team that focuses only on this, but the advantage that we bring to what we do is that we have. Our biggest side of the company is actually our journalists. It’s our editorial side. And every day they’re talking to people in industry they’re writing about it.
They’re writing research reports, news analysis we’re doing webinars. So we have this kind of 24, 7 touchpoint with people in the industry. We were just running an event. This would be really difficult to stay on top of, but so we lean heavily into all of the work that our journalism team does every day to understand what’s going on, understand who the players.
What the topics are. And so we use that in addition to, you know, reaching out for submissions, for people who want to speak and they have to go through a process and you have to, you know, [00:14:00] pitch ideas. It can’t just be like, here’s my name and history. So we blend the two together. It’s feedback from people that want to speak or, or see people speak.
We have an advisory board of people in the industry that helped guide us. And then we have our journalism team, but I’ll tell you it’s tough. I mean, there’s a million things you can cover. Right. And trying to figure out what will resonate with people. How deep to go, how light to go is difficult year after year, how to keep it fresh out of mix up educational content.
So you’re not just sitting there all day in 45 minute sessions. That’s boring. So it’s, it’s that constant. Re-evaluation of what we’re doing. And I’ll tell you, the speaker submission process is difficult because we get it’s, you know, I think we got 800 applications, you know, we might have 80 slots or 70 slots depending on the year.
And then we have our own people that we were considering, and then we have submissions. And so it’s a very competitive process only in the sense that there’s a lot of good people out. And we can’t choose them all every year. Right. And so some people take that to heart and they say, wow, you know, it’s like, so, so we have to take a lot of [00:15:00] considerations.
Lastly, I’ll just say one of the things that we pride ourselves on over the years, We’re not a pay to play organization. And the event world, that means a lot of events to cannabis are run where, Hey, if you’re a sponsor or you hit this level of exhibiting, or you’re a friend of the company, you know, you get this time speaking spot or whatever, we separate the speaking and the education from sales, from marketing, from my relationships, I talk to people all the time that want to speak, but I can’t get it.
We let our team do that, but it’s controversial way to do it for some people, but we, we think that keeps the integrity of what we’re trying to do so that people are on there for a good reason. Not because they, I think that’s
[00:15:35] Bryan Fields: really well said. And I think one of the biggest challenges I’ve had at your conference is that I’ve circled two different topics that I want to see at the same time.
And struggled between selecting between which one I’m going to attend and which one I’m going to try to push talents with Dan, so we can try to get best of both worlds. So let’s stay on the speaking topic. I know that I’m really excited about one of the speakers at the science symposium coming up.
Kellen. Do you want to kind of shed some light on that? I’m going to
[00:15:58] Kellan Finney: be speaking at the sites. [00:16:00] I think that it is. I mean, first off I’m honored and I’m very excited to speak. I really enjoy the science symposium. I think that like Chris was saying they’ve done a really good job balancing covering topics that are relevant to the industry
[00:16:13] Chris Walsh: without going super in depth, especially
[00:16:16] Kellan Finney: with MJ biz.
There’s a demographic, a very diverse demographic that attends the conference. And there are individuals who are operating vertically integrated companies. They may have a more business focused background. And that they’re curious about what innovations and technology is next op, as far as cutting edge in the industry.
But if you were to generate that scientific conference as similar to other really, really in-depth scientific conferences, like the American chemical society or the analytical, the American organization, analytical science. Our
[00:16:53] Chris Walsh: chemists, right. It would
[00:16:54] Kellan Finney: be too in-depth to keep the intention of individuals who are [00:17:00] running the businesses in the industry.
Right. And so I really give the MJ biz team, a big pat on the back for being able to kind of let them dip their toes in the technology. But not making it. So they’re sitting through a full day of scientific lectures, right. Because that would be very boring and it wouldn’t keep the attention of individuals as much in my opinion.
Right. So I think that that’s one of the strengths, at least from my perspective on the scientific aspect
[00:17:28] Chris Walsh: of MJ biz. Right. And, and thank you. I think you’re going to be terrific on stage there and T to just riff off of your point. That you know, I guess this sounds like a cliche that we would use, but I just thought of it.
So I guess what we’re trying to do is offer something for everyone, but we can’t be everything to everyone. So like, this is the big show where yes, if you have an interest in science and you just want to get some feelers around it, you can go to this. If you’re in that sector, you can still go to it, gain something.
It is not going to be these super index. [00:18:00] Yeah, two days just for a scientist or just for a grower. Right. But the grower can go to the science thing and learn more about that or the retail side. And again, it’s giving you that wide coverage of everything going on with the industry, but also we acquired the Emerald conference.
In January of last year, because that science side is really promising down the road, we think overall. So that’s the type where we’re going to run that in spring. And that will be super focused as it was before we acquired it. And that’s where you go, if you’re the real scientists and you, you know the basics, right?
You don’t want to hear all that. You’re going to dive into arcane stuff that the average person, you know, it would go right over there. How
[00:18:36] Bryan Fields: challenging is it to try to have that balance between the domestic and beans or national, right. I know you said you had a bunch of journalists that are covering both sides.
So I mean, that, can’t be an easy thing to try and find journalists out there that are covering some of the international spaces. For someone like myself, I’m always curious on keeping holes on the international space. So is there like a process that you can share on, on how your [00:19:00] team can do that? Yeah,
[00:19:01] Chris Walsh: the international is interesting because we, I did all our market research for that in 18 and 19.
And we saw a lot of potential. So we started, we beefed up our international coverage on the kind of news and analysis and market research side. So we hired people. We have people in Germany and Canada, and then we started doing shows. We did one in Columbia. We did one in Denmark. I was looking at Asia. But what happened with the pandemic is, you know, we had to rethink everything we were doing when your company’s revenues depend largely on live events and those go away completely, you know, it’s a big shift.
So as part of that, we had to look where, what is important right now? Where does our business model fit in? What can we support until we get out of this tent? So long story short is that we reinvision what we were doing with our global slash international coverage. And MJ biz con gets people from 70, 80 countries, right?
It is a global show and we want it to be a global show, but we’ve had to be careful now because countries are, are getting through the pandemic at different rates. You can’t get [00:20:00] together. Cannabis industry has slowed in a lot of countries that were just about to launch their medical cannabis program. So that market for us, and as we see it and where we need to focus, we’ve had to kind of rethink.
So it is hard. We had a good team. We’ve had some reorganization in PSI. We had journalists outside. We had to scale back in that area, but we still have reporters in Canada who cover the global industry. They have a real good idea of how that’s playing out. They have great connections across the world.
That’s how we grow. Yeah. I mean,
[00:20:27] Bryan Fields: I just don’t think people realize the complexity from a state to state situation here in America. Alan hearing to cover all the nuances, the differences, and then you layer in on top COVID and all the international guidelines. A very, very uphill battle to try and stay up to date in the industry.
So, Chris, how do you stay up to date?
[00:20:45] Chris Walsh: I read them now.
Well, I do, I mean, but we have the whole journalism side. I’m closely in touch with everything we’re writing and doing that helps. But I also have a lot of conversations with [00:21:00] people in the industry and during the pandemic, one thing happened for us is that our previous CEO who’s a co-founder. She stepped back.
I took over a CEO, her and I used to have a lot of the external part of the company external facing. So we were having conversations all the time and had our finger on the pulse of where everything was going during the pandemic. My attention went directly into it. As you know, operations getting us through this, how are we going to do a virtual event?
What the hell is a virtual event? You know how do we put this on where’s the value? How are we going to bolster publishing? How do we keep in touch with the industry and keep serving it in the best ways? So is what we realized in January is that we lost some of that connection. And so I’ve really turned my focus externally.
Now it’s really about the relationships, the conversations. Yeah, I read a lot, but I think you, you get a lot of good Intel about where things are going and what’s on everyone’s radar just by conversation. So I talked to other CEOs, you know, many times each week, our top clients, big sources, and that’s where I got a lot of my Intel on what’s going.[00:22:00]
[00:22:00] Bryan Fields: Yeah. And I think your, your podcasts CEO does a really good job of the MJ biz ecosystem, where it feels like I’m at the conference, having that type of sit where I’m listening to do you or Omar discuss with industry leaders what’s going on. And I really enjoyed that. From a forward thinking approach.
Where do you see MJ biz? Is it a combination of virtual and on-site events with the journalism? Take us through kind of the forward approach into
[00:22:25] Chris Walsh: the future? Yeah, I mean, the goal this year is to host, hosted successfully and safely as part of that with the unknowns of COVID, we really, we work at a bite off more than we can chew in an uncertain world.
We put all our efforts into making sure the core of MJ biz goes off, that it’s well done and that this is a celebration for the industry. Yeah. It’s about, you know, improving your business, learning how to start one, making connections, getting sales, leads, all those things. But really this year, this is a celebration that we made it through.
The pandemic that businesses were resilient. And that we have a lot to celebrate going forward and ask the [00:23:00] vibe and the feel that we want with all the business benefits of going, but getting back together in person and saying, we did this, we all made it through and look at where this industry is at.
Look at how it performed through this pandemic. Like, are you kidding? It was, it was fantastic overall, you know, definitely pockets of challenges. So really this year we wanted to take a streamlined approach to make sure that this is going to be done very well. And so we do have, you know, the science and we have a finance symposium and you have you know, things like crash course and all that.
But I think, you know, as we move through this year, we’ll have a re a re-examination of what the industry needs. It, the needs are changing as well. What we keep hearing though, in this industry more than any other, is that value of face to face. So, you know, I think our virtual events were successful in some very key ways, but I think we learned that, especially in this industry, it can only go so far.
How much value can you get off online content, online networking. There’s absolutely value there, but that we heard at time and time again. And we’re seeing it with pacing for [00:24:00] MTSS con this year. We’re ahead of 2019 right now in some key ways. Now, will that hold up? How will this shape up? I don’t know.
That’s a strong indication of the industry, ready to get out there and get back together. And that’s how they move their businesses forward. And you can say that in any industry face to face, but in this industry times 10, that’s how the industry was built and that’s what it needs. So we do have a virtual component.
We’ll have some of that. Parts for people who can’t attend or that you could do it from your hotel room, if you can’t make certain things, but mostly the focus is on the in person experience. Yeah.
[00:24:31] Bryan Fields: I’m really looking forward to kind of getting back out. I think the industry is resilient as a whole, and I think from an in-person standpoint, you really can’t put a price on the networking, especially from the standpoint of the relationships that we’ve built strictly from the MJ biz events.
Kellen. Do you want to kind of shed some light on that?
[00:24:47] Kellan Finney: Yeah, no. I mean, I think that in person. Being around other humans is so important for generating relationships. I mean, we’ve all, everyone has been on zoom meetings for the last year and I’m done the whole [00:25:00] virtual thing and there is value to it. And I think it will continue to develop as technology does, but it’s just not the same being in person versus digitally.
And I think that the pandemic taught a lot of people, a lot of things regarding what you’re capable of accomplishing at your home and being able to do a lot of those things. But I think in the cannabis industry, The biggest win period was the fact that it was declared. Right. And so having cannabis declared essential from the pandemic, I think is just shows how important the industry is to at least the U S population and states that have legalized it.
And I think it’s one of the biggest wins period, as far as what come out of the pandemic from, from an
[00:25:37] Chris Walsh: industry. Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head. It’s a great point that, you know, in this time when virtually the entire world economy shut down for a period of time, you had, you know, many us states saying, you know, cannabis, both medical and recreational, many cases could stay open.
I mean, If you just step back and think about how groundbreaking that is, you know, when 10 years ago we were thinking about, [00:26:00] you know, raids and even going to be around and then it’s, I mean, that’s deemed essential. It’s wild. It’s crazy.
[00:26:08] Bryan Fields: Right? Like from a ten-year perspective, we started with DEA raids and now we’re talking to central.
I mean, that is growth. If there ever is for an industry, it is pretty incredible. So I want to kind of switch gears slightly through podcast. Which of your guests have come on, have surprised you in a way you weren’t anticipating.
[00:26:27] Chris Walsh: I really liked Chris ball of ball, family farms in California, because he was so open about his experience in this industry.
And he came from the illicit market and he was in jail and he found a way to transition into the legal side. And he, he was able to leverage the social equity program. But a lot of people with that type of background, don’t want to talk about it for, for good reason. They don’t want to call out that, Hey, I was doing all these illegal things, but the jail and I went back to do illegal things, you know, like, but that kind of candidness is rare.
And especially in such a [00:27:00] public thing, like a podcast, and he’s talked about it before. And so I was just surprised again at how open he was and willing to share his experience. And talk about how he was able to accomplish this. There are a lot of people in his life that are in his position, you know, that, that are trying to transition to the legal market.
And I think having that was a breath of fresh air for anyone who’s considering that from someone who’s done it. And I also on that same note, when, when, whenever anyone is pretty candid and vulnerable, I think that. What it surprises me because a lot of people aren’t, but you know, Chris crane, as we mentioned before, industry pioneer, you know, it took a consultancy that he founded and now it’s an MSO.
Like that’s a big pivot. There’s a lot, a lot of interesting business, Intel and insights that come out of that. But, you know, I appreciate how he really said he exited the company that he founded. Right. And now it’s publicly traded and, and there’s new executives in, and he’d said, you know, there comes a time where the founder, isn’t the best person to run the business anyway.
[00:28:00] And people have a hard time admitting that it’s tried and true in every industry and it’s it’s you see it everywhere. So it’s not a slight or an embarrassment, but most people would never say that, you know, it’s like, I’m going to spend time with friends or my family or whatever, which is usually true.
But, so I think, I think Chris Chris’s insights were, were particularly welcome, especially for any entrepreneurs getting in today that will likely be in the situation one day where they say, you know what, I built this thing and I’m proud of it, but to take it to the next step, It’s going to require someone else.
I thought
[00:28:30] Bryan Fields: that was really cool, candid, and really honest, the way he kind of approached that. And I took a second after hearing that and wondered to myself, there’s telling an eye on that same path and. Would I be self-aware enough to recognize the time has come. It is no longer us. And would I be able to recognize that?
And I really appreciated the honesty that he shared on those podcasts. And it really, it really kind of connected with me from a leveling standpoint that I just wasn’t really familiar with when listening to podcasts. So I definitely appreciate the insights that you, you kind of approached him [00:29:00] to share there.
[00:29:03] Chris Walsh: It was Jim Belushi actor. Everyone knows who he is. We’ve interviewed celebrities in the cannabis industry before, and it’s a really dicey situation because a lot of times they’re just the face of the company. And then you ask them business questions and they’re like you know, are they just wasn’t on the sheet?
Yeah. They just go back to the PR spokesperson, celebrity spokesperson. Thanks. So we’re always wary of them. And I was wary of it going into this, but I was really surprised at, you know, he is, he is in it, like he’s running around. He was chasing gophers and you know, he’s up there at a cultivation facility learned at all.
He’s not just like paying people to do it and removed or just being the face. And I thought that was cool that he, he learned about growing cannabis and he made a massive mistake and destroyed his key crop because, you know, he left the lamps on overnight and he talked about that too, you know, so I just think his involvement.
In the weeds that not to use upon of growing cannabis was really fun to hear. Are we going to [00:30:00] get Seth Rogan
[00:30:00] Bryan Fields: on your podcast?
Fingers crossed, hoping for that. All right. So biggest misconception since you’ve been in the cannabis space, you know, I think
[00:30:11] Chris Walsh: there’s the typical one that everyone involved is a story loaner or, you know, it didn’t have any other career path or that, that was a lot of it in the early days. Like real business people weren’t getting in.
There’s still that out there, but we’re seeing that app. But I mean, that, that is easily the biggest trend line in the misconceptions is that anyone involved in the marijuana industry, isn’t a real business person and you can’t really take them very seriously as a business person. Yeah. That’s, that’s changing quickly, but you know, I didn’t experience much pushback or resistance along my whole journey in this industry in 10 years, I’d say most of the reactions I get.
were Very positive or just curious at the very least, I, can’t remember one instance where someone said, oh my God, you’re doing a terrible thing or marijuana or weed out of all the conversations with everyone in 10 years. But I will say on the [00:31:00] business side, I think the big misconception is among the mainstream companies coming in or the mainstream professionals that don’t realize that this industry is different.
It’s so different than anything they’ve done. And I’ve had this battle. I’m in a CEO group called business. And it’s CEOs from all sorts of industries. I’m the only cannabis CEO in there. And we have our group mastermind group. We meet once a week or a month, a month, and they’re from construction and tech.
And. And they don’t believe me when I say this industry is different. And they say, well, we we’ve been in attack. We’ve done. You know, we’ve been in 10 industry, they’re all difficult. But at the end of the day, they’re all the same. And that misconception, I see everywhere. So people come into the industry and they say, I was successful over here, starting a company, selling a company, being an executive being market or whatever level of the company.
And they come in and they don’t think it’s different. And they think what they did before is going to work perfectly in the spot. So that misconception, that, that the skills to be successful in this industry are the same as another. And I am [00:32:00] basically disagree with that because it’s not true. Maybe one day it’ll be true.
And I think it’s becoming more true, but it’s different. It’s different in the relationships, the type of people in it, the structure of it is complicated. Once you think you understand part of it, and then you realize there’s a whole other world you didn’t even realize was out. And so people come in and try and do business a certain way.
And the people in this industry are like, get away from me. Don’t use your MBA or sales terms like that. Doesn’t work with me. You know? So that’s the misconception that I think is the current biggest one that anyone getting into the industry should have at the top of their radar, which
[00:32:32] Bryan Fields: aspects that you share your mastermind group kind of surprised them the most.
Is there one that you kind of go with.
[00:32:39] Chris Walsh: Well, I’m still working on getting them on the idea that it’s different. You know, I think the way that people do business in this industry has surprised them most. I mean, there are, there’s a, still a high level of relationship building before and trust concerns, especially from outsiders, quote, unquote outsider.
So I think, you know, we we’ve seen it all. We’ve seen people who [00:33:00] want to do complex partnerships on basically a handshake or not have a legal route. Or just just do everything really quickly. Like, Hey, your, your brand is good. Ours is, let’s just do this and do this big thing. And we’ve learned you, you can’t do business that way.
So I think there’ve been surprised that there’s still an element of that, of kind of this loose approach to doing business and the relationship side to, you know, a lot of the sales teams across the industry, you know, you can’t just knock on the door and get a sale. Like again, they need to know, no, you, they need to see you face-to-face, even if you’re a sales rep or the executive or whatever.
And while that’s true in other industries to get everything’s times 10 here. So that, that surprised them. Yeah, trust is
[00:33:37] Bryan Fields: so, so important in this industry. And it’s just, it’s more so than I’ve been in a bunch of different industries, more so in this one than I’ve ever seen before. And I think that is one of the biggest challenges that outside people are kind of surprised with, you know, can you just make that introduction?
Sure. I can, but we’ll go any farther
[00:33:51] Chris Walsh: past that. Yeah. And lastly, I’d say the the rate of change in the industry makes it different. And so that again, with the [00:34:00] Vistage group, you know, still working on them, but anyone we fire from outside the industry, you know, professional, higher level in every case, they’ve been surprised, no matter how many times I say an interviewer wants to get hired six months down the road, they all come back and say, you’re right.
I wasn’t expecting the industry to change this much. And you always have to be on your toes. And that’s, that’s a misconception that, that, yeah, it’s moving fast, but I can deal with it. You know what, sometimes you can’t deal with so difficult.
[00:34:27] Bryan Fields: It is so, so difficult. So, if you could sum up your experience in the cannabinoid space into one main takeaway or lesson learned to pass on to the next generation,
[00:34:39] Chris Walsh: it would really be flexible.
And that’s in every, every sense of that word. That’s being flexible with your business plans as being flexible with the market, you focus on it’s being flexible. With how you approach things. Like I just said, if you come in and say, I know how to do this, and I’m just going to apply every the way I did it over there, over [00:35:00] here, you’re going to have a very difficult climb.
So it’s, it’s flexibility in every sense of the word across the company, across everything you do. If you’re not, if you’re not flexible and that, that doesn’t lead to you being nimble, you are going to fall behind the needs of your clients, the customers, your audience, whatever it is. And then you’re either going to fall flat on your face, or it’s going to be a lot harder and a lot more expensive and a lot more time consuming than it should be.
That’s really well
[00:35:26] Bryan Fields: said. All right. Prediction time. It’s 2026, which country outside of north America, do you think will be a hot zone for the cannabis and hemp industry where MJ biz will planting another
[00:35:38] Chris Walsh: massive flag? Well, Yeah, I do predictions every year and MJ biz con for many years. And it’s a stupid thing to do because it’s so anything in this industry or so you set yourself up for failure.
Actually, I have a decent track record, but I’ve learned with, especially beyond like 12 months out in this industry, that it’s anyone’s guess, but you know, 20, 26, it [00:36:00] sounds strange, but I would say potentially. Oh, wow. I
[00:36:04] Kellan Finney: was not going to deal with 10 at all.
[00:36:06] Chris Walsh: I was going to go to Germany. Germany is a good one.
And we had one in Denmark and you know, there’s a lot of activity there, but I’m kind of thinking outside the box, thinking five beers in this industry is like 25 and any other, so China would be big. Like that would be a global game changer ethic. I think, you know, there, there has been movement in Asia and even if it’s only on the hemp and CBD.
At that time, you know, I think the THC side is another question, but there is a massive market in China on the CBD side, we outside of the U S and Canada, it’s you know, our second biggest straw at MJ biz, you know, we get tons of exhibitors and and attendees. And so I could see that developing in other ways now, again, I don’t think that would be the th seaside.
China’s the
[00:36:48] Kellan Finney: biggest supplier of hemp fiber right now.
[00:36:50] Chris Walsh: Yeah. Okay. I see where you’re going big into the CBD game and you know, so it is a strange prediction, but I do think going on a limb here and [00:37:00] saying that if you got that right, if you got Asia, if you got China more involved as industry that’s, as you said, calendar games, It doesn’t
[00:37:07] Bryan Fields: sound so strange and we might kind of cut some of it.
So it says breaking news, MTV.
Oh man. I’m going to take a different approach. Definitely going to lean Asia, if not further for you. And then I was Germany was my second one. So I’m kind of caught down to my, my third. I’m going to go with Columbia and I think the reason I’m going to go with that was because God, I don’t remember how many years ago it was.
Last time we were at MIT. We had so many conversations with people from Columbia that were interested in exploding into the opportunity about positioning themselves, accurately, that geographically it’s close enough to the U S where I feel like a lot of us can kind of make that move and get there where it’s not as far of a trip, but also it feels like strategically could be a good geographical partner based on some of the way the games are kind of moving forward and processes.
Making the move to overseas in some areas obviously short five years now. I mean, I can’t even [00:38:00] imagine how many things will ultimately change, but it feels like that could be a good geographical location based on proximity.
You
[00:38:06] Chris Walsh: both bring up great examples and that’s exactly why we did. We did go to Columbia for one year.
We have plans to go back in 2020 and you know, again had to rethink everything we were in Denver. Yeah, near Germany. Those are both great locations. Overall. The thing with Columbia we absolutely might go back there and that, that, that would be at the top of the list. As we consider outside the U S and Canada, things have changed there, and it doesn’t mean that they won’t change again, but a lot of that hype and the potential I think some are really reality set in that people are expecting a lot of the Canadians pull back from international in general, the programs obviously hit pause and.
Respects in 2020. So it’s remains to be seen how these restart and where the next hot beds.
[00:38:50] Bryan Fields: Yeah, I think that’s really well said, especially with the speed of the industry and everything else that’s going on. It is forward three steps to the right two steps, back 10 steps. And then for an organization [00:39:00] like yourself, it’s really challenging to try to make a commitment.
Let’s say 12, 24 months out and find this figure out geographically where we want to go. So Chris, before we. Obviously we’d love to see everyone at MJ biz. We’re really looking forward to kind of getting back and would love for everyone to attend of event and tasking really, really aggressive questions after that, maybe a little
[00:39:18] Chris Walsh: heckling.
[00:39:19] Bryan Fields: That’s what we’re hoping for. He’ll definitely get someone in the crowd giving us a magazine, but hopefully some others out there. So if you’re wondering and want to get into the space, we’d love for you to join us at MJ biz. It’s the go to event and it’s the number one, plus it’s in Las Vegas. So there’s a couple of pluses there.
So Chris, for our listeners that want to get in touch, where can they be?
[00:39:36] Chris Walsh: Yeah. I mean, if you’re interested in anything we do, you know, just through MJ biz daily is our main portal for all the news and analysis research we do. And from there, you can get to the MJ biz con site and do this conference.com and you know, that has all the great information and I’m, I’m happy to give some feedback or insights to anyone as well, trying to get into the industry.
And I met I met Chris [00:40:00] [email protected]. Awesome. Appreciate the time
[00:40:03] Bryan Fields: looking forward
[00:40:04] Chris Walsh: to seeing you in Vegas. All right. Thank you
[00:40:06] Bryan Fields: guys. Appreciate it. Thanks for time.
