Editors’ Note: This is the transcript version of the podcast. Please note that due to time and audio constraints, transcription may not be perfect. We encourage you to listen to the podcast, embedded below if you need any clarification. We hope you enjoy!
According to a Boston University research study, 345 of 376 former NFL players showed signs of CTE. Chronic Pain is also common for former athletes, especially those who played in the NFL.
Plant-based medicine has become an alternative possibility for athletes eager to move away from pharmaceutical dependency.
This week on The Dime, we host Rob Sims, Co-Founder of the Primitive Group, to discuss the following:
- Their partnership with Harvard to study CTE and others
- NFL & Cannabis today
- How their performance line utilizes a proprietary blend to maximize athletes’ recovery
Primitiv, Founded by Pro Football Hall of Fame inductee Calvin Johnson Jr. and Rob Sims, former Detroit Lions teammates who suffered from the long-term physical effects of injuries sustained during their playing careers, Primitiv Group is a forward-thinking research company dedicated to the advancement of cannabis as a form of elevated wellness, believing that the plant holds incredible potential as a healing agent. Primitiv’s vision is to positively impact the global cannabis industry, changing stigmas and stereotypes by educating people about the healing power of the plant and producing innovative products that help people and athletes optimize their wellness through holistic relief.
Primitiv Performance, a product line designed for people living an athletic lifestyle to use before, during and after a workout. Developed by former professional athletes, Primitiv Performance utilizes a proprietary blend of electrolytes, vitamins, and water-mixable nano phytocannabinoids (CBD, CBG, CBC and CBN) formulated to aid in rehydration, recovery, and support the immune system.
Learn more at www.primitivgroup.com or join the conversation on Instagram and Facebook by searching @primitiv_group or @primitivperformance.
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[00:00:00]Bryan Fields: What’s up guys? Welcome back to an episode of The Dime. I’m Brian Fields and with me as always, as Kell Finning. This week we’ve got a very special guest, Rob Sims, co-founder Pri Rob, thanks for taking the time. How you doing today?
[00:00:13]Rob Sims: I’m doing great. I thank, appreciate you guys having
[00:00:15]Bryan Fields: me on. Excited to talk to you, Kellen.
[00:00:17] How are you
[00:00:17]Kellan Finney: doing? I’m doing really well. Really excited to talk to Rob. Really excited to learn about the brand that they’re. Uh, taken national and just, you know, really excited to, to talk to a former professional athlete,
[00:00:28]Bryan Fields: honestly, . Yeah, it’s gonna be great. How are you Brian? I’m excited to dive in. We’ve got a lot of topics today, specifically transition and then the cannabis stuff.
[00:00:35] So, Rob, for the record, uh, we got a east coast, west coast battle. Where would you put yourself, uh, on the map?
[00:00:43]Rob Sims: You know, I was, I was born in Cleveland and uh, I’ve, you know, I’ve been living in Detroit for 12 years, so I gotta say I’m a Midwest East coast, kinda.
[00:00:50]Bryan Fields: There it is. Another one I
[00:00:51]Kellan Finney: was trying to avoid that, you know, you knows how I just glossed over
[00:00:54]Bryan Fields: that
[00:00:55] We’re not, we’re not skipping that one. So, Rob, for our listeners, that un brought, you can give it a [00:01:00] little background about yourself.
[00:01:02]Rob Sims: Yeah. Um, you know, born in Cleveland, Ohio, uh, had the fortunate opportunity to go play for the Ohio State University. Uh, won a national championship with them in 2002, uh, was then traded to the Seattle Seahawk.
[00:01:12] So I did spend a little bit of time on the West Coast about four years, um, until I was traded to the, the Detroit Lion. Uh, I played five seasons for them and finished out my nine year career here in Detroit. Um, and then I got into entrepreneurship, uh, real estate and as of late cannabis and, um, me and my teammate Calvin Johnson have been able to build a, uh, a, uh, a substantial business here.
[00:01:35] And, you know, we’re just looking for forward to the future and seeing the fruits of our labor pay.
[00:01:40]Bryan Fields: Any, any hesitations in the entrepreneurial journey going from, let’s say N F L to the entrepreneurship and then into cannabis? Any, any hesitations for you or people around you when you’re making that transition?
[00:01:50]Rob Sims: Well, I mean, absolutely. You know, as a player, you know, you get, um, you know, want you lane play football’s, you’re there [00:02:00] for, uh, me personally, I always wanted to be an entrepreneur. I had an uncle that was an entrepreneur, so I grew up watching him, uh, be involved with car dealer. So I knew that was part of, that was gonna be my, uh, my future.
[00:02:10] Uh, the NFL was just kinda part of that path. So of course had a lot of naysayers that, um, didn’t know if I was up to it or, um, you know, the, the learning curve that they knew I was gonna go through learn. But, um, you know, every, every single lesson, every single, every single, um, failure, uh, has brought me to this point, so to speak.
[00:02:29] So, um, yeah, I mean, things are, things are headed in the right direction for us and you know, it’s just a testament to the work we. ,
[00:02:36]Kellan Finney: was there anything besides just like a business opportunity that drew you into cannabis from an entrepreneurial perspective?
[00:02:44]Rob Sims: You know, I’m a, I’m a second generation N F L kid, so, you know, cannabis has always kind of been a part of what I understood about the league, even as a young kid, right.
[00:02:53] And, um, just, just understanding that, um, that’s a way that guys kind of took care of their body, um, if not [00:03:00] recreational at fir at first. Uh, they, they learned over time that that was a big piece of the puzzle. In 2000, 2008 when I tore my Peck, um, in Seattle, um, I turned to cannabis instead of opioids and have been on them ever since and haven’t, haven’t taken a pain pill.
[00:03:14] So, um, cannabis has always had like a special place in my heart and I think it helped me through my career. Um, we also treat, my wife, she has suffers from Crohn’s disease, so we treat her with cannabis instead of like a drug like Humira or something like that. So it’s a very big pi piece of our life. Me, me personally, and my.
[00:03:32] Along with other plant medicines, right? We try to do everything natural to, you know, keep, keep our immune system in a certain place or keep our bodies in a certain place. So, um, you know, cannabis and plant medicines has just become a part of our lives. So definitely passionate about it. It, it’s such a
[00:03:46]Bryan Fields: challenging dilemma, right?
[00:03:47] Where in the league you’re given these opportunities, so take certain things, but cannabis has always had kind of that stigma aspect of it. So when you were taking the legs out and starting the company, can you give us the origin, the idea of the company when it was.
[00:03:59]Rob Sims: Yeah, I [00:04:00] mean, the origin, you know, the, the name Primitive is just that, you know, we believe that cannabis comes from a more simple time, right?
[00:04:05] It was one of the first medicines that, that was put here on earth, um, you know, for, for, to benefit people and, and whatever, whatever they needed for, right? It had so many different uses. Um, so, you know, you know, for me it was just, it was, it was just like, you know, I wanted to. I wanted other people to understand what I knew about cannabis and how it helped me, um, because I thought it could really help them, you know?
[00:04:26] Right. So I think that’s where a lot of the building blocks and the passion and the foundation for, along with our vision, mission, and core values for what we wanna do as a company, as entrepreneurs. Um, it kinda all came together as a perfect
[00:04:38]Bryan Fields: storm. So, . So when you got started on that journey, was it to be initially plant touching or was it to evolve the company into other ways in communicating the values cannabis so that others maybe still in the league can learn about the med
[00:04:50]Rob Sims: medicinal benefits?
[00:04:52] Yeah, I mean, I think coming from the league, I think one, one thing you, you learn about me and CJ is that we’re very ambitious, right? Uh, and I think we take on, we [00:05:00] take on a lot, you know, I think that the plan was to be fully vertical, which we’ve done, um, and then build the primitive brand to a place where it could start.
[00:05:08] Uh, you know, kind of go outside of Michigan in these borders. So, um, I think we’ve done that. Everything that we set out to do is still in front of us if we haven’t already accomplished it. And, um, you know, just looking forward to continuing to, to putting this thing together and seeing where it, it ends one day in the future, you know, but it’s been, uh, it’s been beautiful to see it come together.
[00:05:27]Kellan Finney: You said you were vertically integrated. What were those early days like, balancing all the different areas of the supply?
[00:05:33]Rob Sims: Well, I think, you know, two guys that really knew nothing about growing. Yeah. You know, getting into growing, um, you know, building a facility for one, the mistakes we made there, um, the mistakes you make were just, you know, learning to, to grow commercially.
[00:05:45] Like a lot of guys knew how to grow in their basement. A couple plants. But it was a lot different when you were talking about having 1700 to 2000 plants going at one time. And you know what that means from a, you know, a metric standpoint and compliance standpoint. Um, so our early days [00:06:00] were tough. You know, a lot of, a lot of early days you would’ve seen me and Calvin sweeping the floors of our facility cuz we didn’t have enough team members yet.
[00:06:07] Um, you would see us trimming cause we just didn’t have enough team members yet. You know, you’ll see us continually go back to the drawing board to figure out how to get better. So, um, you know, those, those first few days, those first months were. But like I said, I think it really helped build our foundation for what we, what we have now.
[00:06:22]Bryan Fields: I think that’s so critical getting started in the cannabis industry, the only way to really learn is to kind of dive headfirst and, uh, when I was doing the research, I, I was really impressed. Primitive. We started in 2021, retail in 2022, and then product expansions into performance. That’s extremely aggressive growth in not amount of time, not a lot of time, given all the, the challenges that cannabis has alone.
[00:06:42] So getting started on that was that the original plan was to, to hop in and then to accelerate as fast
[00:06:47]Rob Sims: as. Yeah. I mean that was, that was a plan. I think we thought it would go a lot faster than it did, uh, right. It’s been five years. I think everybody thinks that when they jump in that you’re gonna flip the lights on and you know, all, all the money you need [00:07:00] will, will be there.
[00:07:00] Right. Uh, that wasn’t the case. Right. Especially where we we’re building the businesses, the businesses, uh, off cash flow. Right. And we had to keep reinvesting and just continue to, to, to, to walk down that path. But yeah, I mean, it was definitely difficult in the beginning. Um, you know what I’m saying?
[00:07:17] Things came together.
[00:07:18]Kellan Finney: Did you guys look at any other states in the beginning or was it always just Michigan? That’s where your kind of, your home is, and that was kind of the, there wasn’t a conversation
[00:07:27]Rob Sims: outside of that. Yeah, I mean, you know, it’s, it’s unique, you know, that me, me and Calvin both make our homes here, right?
[00:07:33] Yeah. Um, there are a handful of players that do, but the majority of guys that, you know, plan Detroit, you know, they have other homes, other places they go back to. Um, but it was just, you know, we were fortunate that we were. When we were building our business and talking about entrepreneurship in general.
[00:07:48] Um, and really we knew we wanted to take care of our backyard at first, right? And we wanted to, you know, we, that was our competitive advantage, what we had done in Michigan so far in our brand. Um, and it seemed like the most ideal place to start. So, [00:08:00] um, anything, we made the right move there and, and the people in Michigan have, have really shown us love and us a lot of support and, um, I think that’s why the company is strong.
[00:08:09]Bryan Fields: have you seen a change in stance from people when you first got into the industry to where you are now? Or maybe they first were a little hesitant saying, Hey Rob, are you sure that’s the industry to now where they’re like, Hey Rob, can I get involved? Have you seen a change in opinion
[00:08:20]Rob Sims: big time? You know, big, big time.
[00:08:22] You know, you, lot of people saying that, you know, Hey, you know, this doesn’t really fit your brand, right? We were known as philanthropists. Um, you know, I mean, um, but you know, I, I think, I think over time, you know, that’s the one thing along with being vertical that me and CJ set out to do is be. And be advocates for the plant.
[00:08:39] What the plant has done for me and my family. And, um, I, I think the message is starting to penetrate, right? People are starting to get it. And now that we’re coming out with, you know, with these new innovative products, people see that, you know, hey, we, we were, you know, we weren’t gonna stop. We were gonna continue to innovate and continue to get better and continue to move the needle forward.
[00:08:56] And, um, I think it’s paying off for us. Cause we see a lot of folks that, [00:09:00] you know, wouldn’t normally touch cannabis or starting to test the performance products, right? Because it’s providing them that relief that they want. with us standing behind it, you know, they can trust it. When you were
[00:09:09]Kellan Finney: designing those performance products, how much of it was kind of based on your yours and Calvin’s past experience in the league versus like new innovations and trying it during the development
[00:09:20]Rob Sims: phase?
[00:09:21] Well, you know, I think it’s a mix, right? The applications for what we’re bringing to the market, right? They all come from, those products come from things that me and CJ use in the locker room. The oral rehydration solution, right? It’s like an electrolyte or like, uh, liquid iv, right? We were using that in the locker room, you know, 2-3 times a day, uh, in that, that kind of product, So, um, also topical is our first ones that we’re coming out with, so, right. Always using rubs and solves and stuff like that for aches and pains, right? So that’s those things that we used in the locker room, but the innovative. part Is we partner with a group called sip, who is turning cannabis and other cannabinoids into water soluble products [00:10:00] and powders and things like that.
[00:10:01] Uh, using these nano emulsions Uh, right. So that was able for us to make the jump is just, hey, we’re, we’re cultivating plants or, you know, taking distillate and making gummies to, you know, taking really our products to another level of, innovation It’s a full,
[00:10:15]Bryan Fields: full suite of products and I wanna stay with the performance ones.
[00:10:17] And I just wanna back up a little bit and make sure our listeners understand exactly what those products are. So the performance line, it’s a a, a drink. Can you kind of share more about that?
[00:10:24]Rob Sims: Yeah. Right now it’s in powder form. Um, you, you put it in 16 ounce of water and shake it right. Um, for our, in our CBD market, you can buy that online.
[00:10:33] Uh, [email protected]. And also we have a topical that you would put on, you know, you put on your, it’s a transdermal preme that you put on any part of your body that you have aches and pains and it’s got all kinds of C, B, D and cb, CBC and cbn, um, all those things that have those anti-inflammatory properties.
[00:10:50] Um, and we’ve just heard nothing but great reviews a, a about that, right? So I think we set out to build something that would be meaningful and be able to really give people relief, um, and not be just, [00:11:00] you know, snake oil. And I think we’ve been able to do. . Yeah. I think
[00:11:03]Bryan Fields: having your name behind that is so critical.
[00:11:04] So in the formulation process are, are you guys testing the products? Are you working directly hands on with them saying, Hey, you know, I felt a little tired after this, or I felt like a little sore. How h take us through that process on how an athlete like yourself with that type of experience, communicates those needs with the formulation.
[00:11:19] So an average person like Kellen and I can, can understand those, those benefits.
[00:11:23]Rob Sims: Yeah, I mean, we first go into the brainstorming session about what products we wanna bring so that, you know, the first ones were, uh, the rehydration and the, and and the topical. Right. And just really looking to make it, what, what’s a protocol for what recovery looks like for an athlete in a athlete that used cannabis or uses plant medicines, right.
[00:11:41] And, and C, b, D, you know, so it, it started with those two products, but, you know, r and d currently are, are, you know, sleep. Pre and post workout. We’re r d, you know, a neutropic that we’re r d. All these different things that we think to add to overall wellness and overall recovery in the body. For an athlete or the normal person, [00:12:00] uh, that’s where it starts.
[00:12:01] That’s the INF of what we’re trying to accomplish. Uh, then for their sip goes back and makes recommendations on what should go in the product. Um, then we go to r d phase where we hit cows that are the Guinea pigs at that point, and. Uh, the products and, uh, our families and friends are testing the products along with us.
[00:12:16] And, um, you know, in that process we do, we, we find, uh, just like, just like with our, our strains here in our facility, right? We find the best ones and we, we bring them to market. Is there a favorite form
[00:12:28]Kellan Finney: factor, uh, for a testing perspective? Do you have a favorite form factor that you’re more excited when the r and d team is like, Hey, this is, uh, the new, new product potentially.
[00:12:36] Is it drinks or sabs or something that you’re more excited about?
[00:12:39]Rob Sims: Typical. Yeah, I mean I usually get more excited about the, uh, you know, the, the drinks and stuff we do in turnover be right. Cause you can really fill those right away, right? Know you got 10, 15 minutes for when you know the CBD is working or the TSG is working and you really can fill it and you can see it translate right into your workout or translate right in after workout or whenever you choose to use it.
[00:12:59][00:13:00] Um, but the topical I really feel was like special for us. Like, I feel like we really hit that one out the park. , uh, and I think the people that use it are just getting that kinda relief. So, um, you know, it’s kind of changing my mind a little bit, the topical, because I think just how special that it is and, and, um, you know, think we really hit a good one there.
[00:13:18] Um, but yeah, I, I mean, it is crazy, you know, all these things, just like the, the plants, like the ladies become the ladies in here, right? Cause they’re all female plants, right? It’s these things become your baby, right? So all of it is something that you love and see you enjoy, kinda come to life. You. .
[00:13:34]Bryan Fields: You can only imagine.
[00:13:35] And I, I think taking those products that you’ve cultivated, right, and you’ve made, and you bring ’em to other players that are currently in league and let them say, Hey, try this out. And then you see their reaction. What is their experience like? Do they say, Hey Rob, there’s no way there’s cannabinoids in, you’re like, what is that conversation like when they’re discovering the, the capabilities of the plant for like, really
[00:13:50]Rob Sims: the first time?
[00:13:52] Yeah. I mean, the, the conversation is, is Brian spanking new? Uh, we, we just released performance two weeks. We just had 250 [00:14:00] v i p boxes go out to, you know, friends in the league and, you know, a lot of the, a lot of folks that you guys would know or see every day on TV talking about football, right? They’re starting to get those in their hands currently this week and, you know, in the, in the next week.
[00:14:13] But like I said, everything we, we hear is very positive, right? And I think, um, you know, these folks are going and using them and all these folks are former players, so have aches and pains where they can tell immediately when they put some on. what it can do for ’em. But along with that, people that haven’t been in the league, right, you know, folks that are, um, you know, that have walkers, folks that have, you know, really have things, real life things going on in their life, they’re saying the same thing.
[00:14:38] So, um, you know, I think. A lot of times our, our peers look at us and when they really pull back the, the, the onion a little bit and see how far we’ve come and what, how vast we really, what, what, what would be done is. That’s where they go like, man, there’s, there’s no way you guys built this. Right. But it’s, uh, you know, it’s been a long road.
[00:14:56] It hasn’t been overnight by any means.
[00:14:57]Bryan Fields: No, and cannabis is as challenging as [00:15:00] possible, and the NFL has made massive strides as well. Right? When you played in the league cannabis with Josh Gordon, all those areas was not something that was commonly, uh, accepted. So to see that type of acceptance and move on think is good from, from
[00:15:10]Rob Sims: all sides.
[00:15:12] Yeah, I, I, I do too. You know, I think, you know, I think there’s some things in cannabis and, and, and, and hemp that can be brought to the forefront and really be beneficial for, you know, folks in the league, you know, and making the league better, right? We see everything that’s going on with concussions We see everything that’s going on with chronic pain, right?
[00:15:29] We see, we see all kind of things going on right there. There’s more things that can help in these plant medicines if we can bring them out and be able to study them and, you know, really, really build a polished brand that can stand on the NFL stage as well along with it. Right. I think that was important too, right now.
[00:15:45] I told you guys earlier, we built our logo to look like a sports team, right? That’s, you know, by design, right? Because we, we wanna, we wanna, we want to look familiar when they look.
[00:15:54] at us
[00:15:55]Bryan Fields: Speaking of that, the partnership with Harvard, I think is really paramount. I, I think the work you guys are [00:16:00] doing there, and I’d love for you to expand on exactly how that started and, and what is currently happening.
[00:16:05]Rob Sims: Yeah, so, you know, we met, we met with, well first we met, we, we got introduced through Harvard by a group named Nest that was working on brain neuroplasticity. Um, so they actually were doing brain. And they were doing some things with Harvard and introduced us to Dr. Gu there, who was heading up the International Final Medicines Institute.
[00:16:26] Um, so me and Cal actually gotta go to Harvard and see the back, you know, go to Dana, see the behind the scenes, see the, see the rats in the back that they’re testing things on and you know, see all of the cool things that they were learning about plant medicine. And that was, you know, that was five years ago at this point.
[00:16:40] And everything was really about nano and the shift in nano. I think that’s what put us on our. But, you know, we, we developed a research draft with them. Uh, we made a donation, um, to them as well in preparation for launching Primitiv performance. Like, we just had to be able to go and start to really start to do some, some quality [00:17:00] assurance testing as well as, you know, really doing some animal trials on what we’re, what we’ve developed.
[00:17:04] So, um, we knew, we knew early on we wanted to work with a university and wanted do research. Uh, very fortunate that Nest and Harvard came our. And like I said, now that we, now that we started performance and we have the, we have, we actually have the product that can be studied, uh, we’re, we’re ready to, you know, move forward with that.
[00:17:23] So it’s kind of
[00:17:23]Kellan Finney: like a trifecta between, uh, you guys SIP and Harvard in terms of developing the science and all that stuff for the products. Um, correct. Is that, is that how that kind of, uh, relationship works between the three of you guys or is it No.
[00:17:38]Rob Sims: Go. Yeah. I mean that’s, that’s our plan for getting better right now.
[00:17:41] Sip Now, right now SIP has developed and we have our, we have our first products that we bring the market mm-hmm. , um, that we’ve released market. The thing is to refine those through research at, at Harvard, right? That would be my, that, that’s our goal, right? Is to really get those things, um, button up and tighten up, right?
[00:17:57] We look at our products and we’re [00:18:00] proud of them, no doubt, but always see improvement, right? We’re always gonna, we’re we’re, if it ain’t broke, break it type people, right? So we’re always looking to get. And I think Harvard gives us the opportunity to do that. And they’ll be able to
[00:18:11]Kellan Finney: make, like, provide like robust science that lets you
[00:18:14]Bryan Fields: make claims for your product.
[00:18:16] Correct.
[00:18:17]Rob Sims: Yeah. That’s another big piece of that. Right? You know, none of these, none of, none of the cannabis products that you see all that really have the study and the research behind it that they need, right. For them really to be mainstream and what it affects the body. And, you know, right. The government isn’t ready for that today, um, for us to take it off schedule, wanting to do that.
[00:18:35] But we, the signs are, it is getting closer. Um, right. And, um, things, you know, places like Harvard are just, they’re just jumping the gun to that. We have an opportunity to do some things with them. So, um, yeah, I think that’s going to be the biggest thing and that’s going to be the ones that separates everybody, right.
[00:18:51] Are the ones that can get it quality assured to us and make sure it’s safe and, you know, make sure that we’re really delivering what we already.
[00:18:57] believe
[00:18:59]Bryan Fields: and the research [00:19:00] aspect is so critical in helping others that might experience this or, or currently experience this, that obviously Harvard is a, a big leg up on in helping to push that initiatives forward.
[00:19:07] So I commend you guys for putting the money up front and helping kind of start that process cuz it’s very critical to where the lead needs to keep going. Yep. So are, are there any continued conversations with the NFL on collaborations? Are ways to also expand into, into the partner?
[00:19:24]Rob Sims: Um, you know, we haven’t had any of, of, of, uh, recently, um, uh, you know, back, back to perimeter performance, you know, this is what we built it for, is to really come and be like, Hey, this is what we built.
[00:19:34] Um, we’d love to get some data under our belt first with sales and things like that before we do that. Um, but that is, that is on our, our short list of things that we’re ready to do. We feel like we’re ready to go and have those conversations. You know, we’ve had some with different teams, um, but we would love to go and have real conversation with people.
[00:19:53] The decision makers that can make something happen from a national level. So, um, we’re preparing for that, right? Everything is in [00:20:00] preparation, it’s a pro, it’s, it’s, it’s a process. Um, and like I said, when we do get our opportunity, my main thing is that we wanna be ready, we wanna be, make sure it’s right.
[00:20:08] Yeah. Ch change
[00:20:09]Bryan Fields: takes time and data influence that change. And the only way to achieve that data is to put the research and the time forward. Yep. Absolut. ,
[00:20:18]Kellan Finney: what do you think the timeline is for the N NFL kind of, uh, making that transition? Do you think it’s like two, three years from now or something like that?
[00:20:23] Or do you think it’s gonna take federal kind of adjustments to our schedule one? Yeah.
[00:20:29] Yeah.
[00:20:29]Rob Sims: I think I, you know, I think the NFL keeps progressing, um, with, uh, lessening the rules right now. Now you can have cannabis in your system and not be suspended. It’d just be a fine, right? I think that goes away eventually.
[00:20:41] Um, you know, you, you see them already doing you know, donating money for research in certain areas as far. And things like that. cte right? And you know, I, I look at that as cannabis being right around the door, right? We’re starting to sniff around the same spot. Um, you know, so [00:21:00] I, think it continues to get better.
[00:21:01] Obviously, you know, when it goes federal legal right, it’s going to open up a lot of things for a lot of people and a lot of different organizations, right? I, I know with our 50, we have a 50 man team here, Decisions take a long time, and we’re a small company. I can’t imagine being a 10 billion company in a decision like cannabis and making it, it’s a lot different.
[00:21:20] So, uh, whenever that happens, we’ll be ready. , do you think people
[00:21:25]Bryan Fields: are surprised by the recovery benefits that cannabis provides? I know most assume that cannabis has its relaxing properties, but also the recovery benefits like you spoke on, are very critical to helping achieve that that next day. Can you kind of share more about, you know, cannabis and how many in the league perceive it to be and what you think it’ll happen as time changes.
[00:21:44] Yeah, I mean, you
[00:21:45]Rob Sims: know, when we were, we were trying to get our shortlist together for some of these v i p boxes for performance or who we wanted to send it to. We reach out to people, you know, very well known folks that are receiving these boxes. And, you know, it was, it was, it, it kind would solidified what we were doing.
[00:21:59] Cause they were [00:22:00] saying like, man, I need, I need you guys to make a, a, you know, a topical crane. I need some CBD topical, or I’m doing this or I’m doing that. I said, oh, that’s funny. We’re about to send you one. That’s what I’m sending you, man. So, I mean, it’s just, um, you know, I think, I think athletes know what plant medicines do for them, right?
[00:22:17] I think we see that. We see it in the news, right. We, we understand that piece. Um, you know, we see all the athletes that are coming out that are jumping in the cannabis if they can, or their brand or whatever. It’s. You know, I think you got, I think you’ve got a lot of guys, a lot of women that have played professional sports in general, um, that are, they’re, they need a product like this, right?
[00:22:38] It’s, it’s one of the things that help them and keep their, keep their, their quality of life headed in the right direction.
[00:22:45]Bryan Fields: Let’s do a quick rapid fire. Let’s do it. Your favorite product? My topical . Bigger challenge Building and operating in the cannabis industry or
[00:22:56]Rob Sims: playing for the. Building and operating in the [00:23:00] cannabis industry.
[00:23:00] 100%. 100%. Rank
[00:23:03]Bryan Fields: these three teams by wins next year. The Lions, the Jets, or the Broncos? .
[00:23:11]Rob Sims: Oh man. Well, you know, that’s a tough one. . I’m, I’m going Lions cuz then boy, they, they hot right now, so they finished on a strong note. So I’m gonna say they’re gonna take number one, we’re not gonna change much, we’re just gonna add to what we built.
[00:23:23] Um, I. I’m gonna go with Broncos. I think Sean Payton is a flat out winner. Um, and he’ll get it done. I think he’ll get that place in shape. Uh, I gotta go. Jets laugh, even though I love Robert. So, you know, I really wish he would’ve gotten a job here when he was up a little while ago. He’s a native guy here in, in, in Michigan, went to Dearborn High School.
[00:23:45] Um, you know, but it, j Jess need a little bit of work too. So , uh, you know, that’s, that, that, that’s my. I’ll give you a chance
[00:23:53]Bryan Fields: to edit this if Rogers comes and then we can put us to the top. Yeah. .
[00:23:58]Rob Sims: Ok. That changes [00:24:00] the game. Aaron goes anywhere. He changes the game. Yeah, I agree.
[00:24:03]Bryan Fields: Yep. Un underrated activity after consuming, man, I
[00:24:08]Rob Sims: love to cook.
[00:24:10] You know, I find, you know, I love to like, use my, use my smoker. Um, you know, who doesn’t like to eat after they enjoy little smoke? Right. You know, but I got the patience to wait for that 12 hour brisket. You know what I mean? So I just, I just sit back and chill and relax, um, and do that. And I, I find like, unbelievable similarities to like smoking meat and growing plants, right?
[00:24:30] It’s all about the environment and the genetics or the, the product, right? So it’s, uh, it’s, it’s fun for me to kind of play with. , did you ever
[00:24:38]Bryan Fields: grow prior to to starting the company? Never grew prior and consuming. You were a big consumer prior to?
[00:24:45]Rob Sims: Yep. Big, big consumer. Um, but, you know, ne never grew, never thought I had a green thumb.
[00:24:51] But you, you never know what a good lord might take you. You know? Now it’s like I said, now I do 1700 plants, you know, so it was pretty crazy. Pretty crazy. [00:25:00] Do you have
[00:25:00]Bryan Fields: a favorite, do you have a favorite strain that, uh, per well was
[00:25:03]Rob Sims: smoking meat?
[00:25:07] You know, we, we had a strain here I really liked was peanut butter breath. Um, I, we, I really liked that one. I think it just gave you a, you know, it just gave you a nice feeling, body feeling. Um, and just like you said, if I’m doing that, I’m, I’m relaxed, right? I don’t wanna be sped up. I don’t, I don’t need a sativa.
[00:25:25] I just need something. Just calm me down. So, um, yeah, I mean, peanut butter breath was, was probably one of my favorites that we’ve grown. Um, but you know, I, I mean personally I love, I love trying different strains, man. I love, I love traveling and, and seeing different things and, and, and just understanding, you know, cannabis more and more, but vi had, pick one peanut butter, coming outta primitive, coming outta is my favorite.
[00:25:48]Bryan Fields: What? Stadium was always the loudest to play as a visitor?
[00:25:53]Rob Sims: As a visitor. Um, one place I didn’t get to play as a, as a visitor was Seattle, but I guarantee you that’s the [00:26:00] loudest. I hate Lambeau with a passion, uh, but I would say I played, uh, I played Kansas City. Uh, we played in Kansas City one time and I just felt like the fans are on top of us and our place was unbelievably loud.
[00:26:14] So I, Arrowhead is, is pretty serious
[00:26:18]Bryan Fields: percentage of the league that consumes cannabis over 75% Super Bowl winner Next.
[00:26:30] What
[00:26:30]Rob Sims: are next year? Um, man, you know, I think if Sam Fran can get a quarterback and be healthy, I think they got all the pieces and they definitely, you know, they definitely have a scheme. So, um, if they can get a quarterback to stay healthy and not have to go to Mr. Relevant, even though he bought out. We, you know, you, they had to go, they had to go deep in the well from the quarterback position.
[00:26:56] You can’t win like that. No.
[00:26:58]Kellan Finney: They’re really dirty team though. They [00:27:00] have just so many freak athletes. It’s
[00:27:01]Bryan Fields: insane.
[00:27:02]Rob Sims: Freaks. Freaks over there, man. It’s not straight up. Unreal. A
[00:27:05]Bryan Fields: group of ’em. , the play going is just insane
[00:27:08]Rob Sims: also. Yeah, they’re, I mean, their scheme is nasty. It makes me feel good
[00:27:12]Kellan Finney: cuz Shanahan was a product of the Broncos.
[00:27:14] You. You and Lynch too, right? And
[00:27:18]Rob Sims: Lynch, yeah. Yeah, you’re right.
[00:27:19]Bryan Fields: You’re right about that. We’re San Francisco East, or at least we’re trying to be . What is one idea about operating in the cannabis industry that would surprise or shock others to know?
[00:27:32]Rob Sims: Whew. Um, man, there’s so many, but I would just say, um,
[00:27:41] it’s not easy, right? I would say that’s probably the biggest thing, right? Is. Uh, cannabis, you know, from a lot of people, a lot of entrepreneurs are just like, oh, you know, you just grow the plant and you sell it and you’re gonna be able to sell it all. You know, it’s not that easy. You gotta put a lot of work in a lot of work in our marketing, me and Kyle put a lot of in to represent the [00:28:00] brand and make sure the brand is where its been represented the way it needs to be.
[00:28:03] Um, so I would, I would say that’s the biggest thing, right? That just cause you grow it doesn’t mean everybody buys it. Right? And there’s a lot more that goes.
[00:28:11]Bryan Fields: I also wanna give you
[00:28:12]Kellan Finney: some mad respect. Michigan’s probably one of the more challenging markets to launch a brand in just because it’s not a limited license state.
[00:28:18] So it’s just a free for all. So like I give you guys mad respect for just standing in the ring and taking the shots and just keep on swinging. Cuz . Oh yeah, Michigan’s not
[00:28:26]Rob Sims: easy. . Oh yeah, I know it’s not, not easy. A lot of challenges here, but you know, it’s all said and done. I look back over the five years and I see we’re.
[00:28:34] We’re not, not only still relevant, we’re still moving in the right direction. You know what I mean? So that, that’s, uh, to your, to your point. I appreciate you saying that. Cause you know, it, it is been difficult. Amen.
[00:28:44]Bryan Fields: And the learning curve is steep, right? You’re operating numerous businesses inside a very competitive regulatory environment, and you’re expanding aggressively.
[00:28:51] So it, it is definitely not an easy feat, and I can only imagine going in and anticipating how excited it was, and then the humbling experience of learning about the challenges of [00:29:00] cannabis. How quickly, oh,
[00:29:00]Rob Sims: man. Humble, humble, humble, humble experience, man. Just, you know, you know, you got to a point where you thought, oh man, I’m the smartest businessman in the world.
[00:29:08] So you realizing like, uhoh, I got, I got some. In front of me here and, and then, you know, it’s crazy. Cuz now, right now, now you’re going into the CBD business, right? We went into retail, we’re going into processing, you know, you’re going into licensing, you got all these different things happening. You’re like, oh man, these are, these are different companies that I’m doing for the first time.
[00:29:26] Right? So you got four or five startups going at the same time. But like I said, through my, with my team, we’ll get it done. I know that we’ll get it figured out. What’s the future roadmap? Yeah, I think the future roadmap is, is just to make sure that we’re solidified here in Michigan, and I think we’re getting really close to that.
[00:29:43] Um, with our, with our brand. I think we know we’re over at 80 stores and for a small, small unit like us, that’s pretty good. Um, you know, obviously Imeter performance is, takes our messaging to a whole different place and wellness and performance. So, and then I. [00:30:00] Licensing in general, right? I, I, when we go to other stores, you know, I don’t see us rebuilding what we did here in Michigan.
[00:30:05] I see us saying, Hey, we built this polished brand that can represent you and your team well. And, um, you know, some of those announcements be coming out here in the next 30 days or so about where else that we’re working. So, um, yeah, I think that’s our future roadmap. And then, you know, but man, who, who knows, man, who knows?
[00:30:22] We keep pulling back the onions on this one, man. It’s crazy what we. , when you got started in
[00:30:27]Bryan Fields: your journey in the cannabis space, what did you get? Right? And most importantly, what did you get wrong?
[00:30:33]Rob Sims: You know, I think I got right. Um, Definitely got right with me and Kyle teaming up and doing it together. I think that’s maybe the biggest thing we always talked about, Hey, if we can play on the field together, win and lose together, I mess up.
[00:30:49] You mess up, you do. Right? I do. Right. And still be able to keep the ball moving. And we can do this in other places like entrepreneurship. Um, and the fact that we did that when we invested, [00:31:00] you know, a lot of our own money is a lot of our own vision, a lot of our own. , um, you know, a lot of our own insights and the name, everything is, is what we’ve built.
[00:31:10] And, um, but I, I’m, I’m glad I, I did it, I did it right with him. You know, I think we did it the right way. Um, what, what we did wrong. Um, I don’t think we have enough time on the podcast, man. I think we messed up a lot. I think there’s a lot of things that we had to go back to the drawing board about. But I think in, uh, in the end of the day, right, those things are things that you can internalize and get better from.
[00:31:33] Um, and, you know, I think we’ve done that. I think we’re do a good job of being resilient and doing that.
[00:31:39]Bryan Fields: Before we do predictions, we ask all of our guests, if you could sum up your experience in a main takeaway or lesson, learn to pass onto the next generation, what would it be?
[00:31:49]Rob Sims: Don’t be afraid to jump. Um, don’t be afraid to jump and just don’t never stop, man.
[00:31:55] You know, you can’t lose if you don’t. Um, you know, there were a lot of times along this journey [00:32:00] where, you know, I was like, maybe this, I’m not right for this or I can’t get it done, but stuck in there and, and hung in there. And like I said, I’ll look back five years later like, Hey, this is, this is, Hey, that was just the, the toll, that was just the tax to take the bridge, right?
[00:32:13] So, um, yeah man, I, we feel like, uh, that’s it, man. Just keep moving. Whatever. It’s man, just whatever you do, cannabis or whatever, man, just keep moving. Just don’t quit.
[00:32:23]Bryan Fields: Really. Welcome. I love that. Alright. Prediction. Rob, the N NFL stance towards cannabis has shifted. In your opinion, what is needed for the league to 100% fully adopt cannabinoid therapeutics?
[00:32:39]Rob Sims: I think they need a, they need a Polish brand. I think they, I,
[00:32:45]Kellan Finney: I love that
[00:32:46]Rob Sims: answer. They need a Polish brand, and when they look at, they can see themselves. That’s what I believe. I believe that there’s a lot of medicine that people can bring to the table that would be beneficial. Um, but I think ultimately, right, this is a pr play, [00:33:00] uh, for the nfl.
[00:33:02] And, um, like I said, my goal is to build a brand that can stand up and, and look good for them. So,
[00:33:13]Kellan Finney: I mean, I’m gonna agree with Rob. I’m just gonna expand on it. I think that Apollo brand is one that kind of is following the path that Rob and Calvin are following in terms of like partnering with the university, creating these, um, environments for studies to be done on their products that support the claims that they’re making, right?
[00:33:30] Like all of these things go into it being a polished brand. So I think that that is exactly what’s needed. As Rob said, there’s just a little more data they need and I think it’s just coming. It’s, it’s not, uh, a matter of if, I think it’s when at this point. Uh, what are your
[00:33:44]Bryan Fields: thoughts? Yeah, I think the data adoption is gonna be so critical, and I also think it needs trailblazers like you, Rob and Calvin, in order to get the adoption of the players to help pushing the narrative forward.
[00:33:54] I, I think so many people go into this wanting to just take one angle, and I love your approach of, of, of [00:34:00] really backing it up with the science side in order to help change the minds, which is really critical in order to get something like cannabis through the other side because it’s been stigmatized for so, , but the therapeutic benefits of it are just so extensive and can make such a massive difference for so many people.
[00:34:14] And especially in replacing those opioid therapies, right? Like we need to start getting away from that and start giving people a more natural medicine that can help you Absolutely. And continue the fight forward. So I, I, I love what you guys are doing and I’m excited to kind of continue the journey
[00:34:26]Rob Sims: watching.
[00:34:27] Yeah. We appreciate it, man. Appreciate you guys having
[00:34:29]Bryan Fields: me all. Yeah. So Rob, for our listeners, they want to get in touch, they wanna learn more and they wanna find primitive products. Where can they.
[00:34:35]Rob Sims: Uh, primitive group.com. That’s primitive without a e or primitive performance. Do com for the new performance.
[00:34:42] Come. Come straight to your door. Come right out this facility, right to your door, so primitive performance com. We love it. We’ll leave
[00:34:47]Bryan Fields: it up the notes. Thanks for taking the time. This was fun. All right,
[00:34:50]Rob Sims: thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks, Rob.
