Editors’ Note: This is the transcript version of the podcast. Please note that due to time and audio constraints, transcription may not be perfect. We encourage you to listen to the podcast, embedded below if you need any clarification. We hope you enjoy!
This week we are joined by Nate Lipton to discuss :
- We debate Indica vs Sativa
- Canna Cribs Viral Sucess
- Jungle Boys, and the next growers to know
- and so much more
Growers House is Your #1 Online Hydroponics Store.
Canna Cribs is The MTV Cribs of Cannabis.
https://www.youtube.com/c/GrowersNetwork
https://www.instagram.com/cannacribs/?hl=en
At Eighth Revolution (8th Rev) we provide services from capital to cannabinoid and everything in between in the cannabinoid industry.
8th Revolution Cannabinoid Playbook is an Industry-leading report covering the entire cannabis supply chain
The Dime is a top 50 Cannabis Podcast
Contact us directly at [email protected] Bryan Fields: @bryanfields24 Kellan Finney: @Kellan_Finney
[00:00:00]Bryan Fields: What’s up guys. Welcome back to our episode of the dime I’m Brian Fields. And with me as always is ke Finney. And this week we’ve got a very special GA guest, Nate Linton co-founder of Canna cribs, grow house and grow network. Nate, thanks for taking the
[00:00:14]Nate Lipton: time. How you doing today? Doing well, doing well. I’m uh, had my coffee, have my tea now.
[00:00:20] Cause I’m a caffeine freak. I like to have a whole different variance but yeah, feeling good. Thanks for having me on the podcast.
[00:00:26]Bryan Fields: Excited to dive in. Ke how are you doing?
[00:00:28]Kellan Finney: I’m doing well back home finally, after a lot of travel and I’m super excited to talk to, to Nate and big fan of what he does out there.
[00:00:35] Brian, how are you? I’m
[00:00:36]Bryan Fields: doing well. And I appreciate you asking co and not giving us a weather update for what we’re doing.
[00:00:41]Kellan Finney: I’m working on getting better. Nate, for
[00:00:42] the,
[00:00:43]Bryan Fields: the record, Nate, I will ask Nate your location
[00:00:46]Nate Lipton: for the record. For the record I am in, uh, Tucson, Arizona near the Swan and river area for those who know Tucson kind of near the base of the mountains.
[00:00:56] That’s the check off the west west
[00:00:58]Bryan Fields: coast, the west coast. Yes. Another one [00:01:00] for the west coast. So I, I’m excited to kind of dive in Nate for our listeners. Can you give a little background about you and how you kind of got into the cannabis
[00:01:06]Nate Lipton: space? Yeah, for sure. So I’ve been in the cannabis space. Um, since I graduated college in 2010, working, you know, in dispensaries cultivation, um, equipment used for cultivation and, uh, you know, in 2011, um, after working for a few other companies, I started growers house in Tucson, Arizona equipment supply company for like, um, hobbyists and commercial growers.
[00:01:31] And then, um, you know, in the years that followed, we launched, uh, other companies associated and affiliated companies like growers network, um, that’s growers network.org, it’s a forum and a website to learn, um, cultivation knowledge, as well as communicate with other growers. And then we launched the cancri YouTube series, which is kind of like what we call a docu-series.
[00:01:51] We call it edutainment, um, with educational and entertaining, uh, where we do kind of like a walkthrough of commercial growing [00:02:00] operations, uh, that you know, are growing some of the best cannabis in the country. And we try and show how they do it. Like, what are their processes and methodologies? What products are they using?
[00:02:10] Uh, so that we can kind of make it that knowledge a little more democratized and people can learn because like, you know, right now I don’t think people know this, but there’s like over 10,000 commercial, like licensed businesses growing cannabis. So a lot of them are like new, never done this before on a legitimate level.
[00:02:28] Um, some of them are like families who are like, oh yeah, I used to have a convenience store now, screw it. I’m gonna go try my hand at cannabis. And you know, there’s a lot of information that people wanna absorb. And I think we’re providing kind of like what I think of as discovery channels, how it’s made episode.
[00:02:44] But on how to grow cannabis, um, as a profession, as a business, you know,
[00:02:50]Bryan Fields: I’m really glad you shared that. I’m excited to kind of dive into that because I think what your team’s doing there is really not recognized for how much value it’s doing because across the, the series, [00:03:00] it’s just, just jampacked with the information.
[00:03:01] So I wanna stay back when you first got started in the space, did you always think you wanted to be in the cannabis industry? Were there hesitations to kind of dive in, take us back to that origin days when you first wanted to get into the space?
[00:03:12]Nate Lipton: Yeah, you know, I think when I was like in college, I was like, Uh, the best way I can put it is I was very drug friendly.
[00:03:18] Um, maybe is a good way to put it. that’s a good way to put it. and, um, I don’t know those things. I, I didn’t think of it as career though. I just thought of it as like a lifestyle. Right. And, uh, I was like, oh yeah, I’m gonna get into one of those careers that like, everyone tells you about when you’re a 13, you’re a lawyer doctor, you know, or something.
[00:03:37] I was like, you know, I kind of took a lean towards like doing math things and I love spreadsheets and, you know, I love calculations and figuring things out. So I ended up like kind of going the economic slash finance direction and, um, did an internship at Morgan Stanley. And I was like, P bro, I hate this.
[00:03:54] Like, I absolutely hate it. And then I was like, okay. I, uh, obviously don’t like this [00:04:00] kind of like bureaucratic hierarchical structure. I want it to be a lot more free flowing. I probably need to like work in an industry that’s like, not as mature. And, um, maybe I even have to work for myself eventually. So what’s that process gonna look like?
[00:04:13] Obviously I should work for other people and, you know, get kind of bust my chops a little bit. So that’s what I did. And I was like, the cannabis industry is probably the most interesting one because, you know, I think I’ve heard a lot of people tell me whether it was professors or mentors or family members that I respected.
[00:04:30] They’re like, you know, yeah, it’s important. You know, like maybe how much effort you put into things and maybe how lucky you are and how smart you are, all these things. But you know, what really kind of matters too, is making sure that you’re riding a wave that’s cresting. And I was like, cannabis seems like a wave that’s cresting.
[00:04:49] So why don’t I, you know, kind and see what I can do there. And that’s lit literally the rest is history, you know, got into it, never came out of it. And for me, I wake up some days [00:05:00] and I’m like, You know, I do like we even see comments on the can cruises of YouTube, where people are just like, man, I would love to go walk through this facility.
[00:05:09] Like you just did. And then I wake up in the morning. I’m like, dude, like these guys wish they could have just spent, you know, I just spent two days, 12 hours a day running through this facility, filming all this stuff. But at the end of it, I’m like, man, this is really cool. Like, yeah, it was kind of tiring and kind of grueling and maybe, you know, it was more of like making the sausage rather than consuming it, you know, which is a lot tastier.
[00:05:32] But man, there was like, I wake up sometimes and it’s like, I can’t, I almost don’t even know what it would be like to work in another industry. and I don’t think I care to find out too much right now I’m in too deep and I’m staying here. You know, that’s kind of how I feel what the cannabis is. So
[00:05:51]Kellan Finney: when, when you were first walking through these facilities and getting going, what was the biggest thing that kind of, um, shocked you from like a, an old school [00:06:00] kind of closet grow, where you’re just supporting you and your friends versus, uh, a commercial operation that’s licensed, that’s trying to support an entire state’s market.
[00:06:09]Nate Lipton: Yeah. There’s, you know, it’s funny. I, um, I thought about, I was talking to someone, I was trying to give them a metaphor of like old school growers versus new school growers. And, um, the metaphor I came up with, which I kind of liked. And maybe this’ll kind of get to the question a little bit. Maybe it’ll be a little bit deviant, but, um, So old school growers are like, yeah, they, they started in their closet.
[00:06:34] Then they started blowing out the garage. Then they did multiple rooms, you know, then they might take over a whole house and they’re like super crafty DIYs. They’re usually super into like being on forms online or Instagram and like looking up what they can learn from other growers trying to perfect their craft, doing a little bit of their own research and development.
[00:06:55] You know, I would say some growers are a little bit better at doing controlled studies versus [00:07:00] others. , you know, you know, it’s like change one variable, keep everything else the same, grow, see how it turns out. Some are like change 10 variables at once and then pick the one that you like most that, you know, , uh, that’s not the way to go.
[00:07:12] Um, but then you have the other side, which I would say is like, let’s just call it traditional ag. Think in your head, like the guy who has been growing row crops of corn. For three generations or something like that. And the weird thing that’s happening right now is like, we’re seeing this convergence of the two where like you have the old school growers growing in a really big setting and learning some of the commercial ag techniques, but then you have the commercial ag people coming in and you know, saying like, oh yeah, it’s just a plant’s plant.
[00:07:44] You know, I can grow this plant and we’re gonna grow it the same way I always have. And it turns out they both have a lot to learn from each other, but they both came in, not really respecting one another. Okay. But what I’m seeing now [00:08:00] is they are a little more receptive to learning from each other.
[00:08:04] Whereas at first I felt like it was like, you know, them really bashing heads. And it reminded me of like old school days. I’m a big snowboarder. And I didn’t see this as much, but I grew up watching like snowboarding and skiing documentaries. And I remember seeing those old movies, like those eighties, like party, you know, mogul skiing movies, where the snowboarder would go up on the mountain.
[00:08:26] He’s like that new school cat kind of weird. And the skier would be like, dude, get off my hill, you know, and things like that. And it’s like the traditional skiing method. And then they used to like separate the mountains. You have like the skiers and the snowboarders. And that’s kind of like the, do two different styles of growers.
[00:08:43] But now it’s like, they’re starting to play well in the sand together. And like, you go to the mountain and you see the skiers, the snowboarders, they’re all interacting well. And it’s like, you go to a cannabis conference now. And it’s like, the, the lines are becoming very blurry between someone who like is a professional cannabis grower and [00:09:00] someone who.
[00:09:01] Um, well, who has a background? I would say in growing cannabis, in the legacy market versus someone who’s, uh, came from traditional ag and now is growing cannabis. And what they’re doing is they’re realizing like shit cannabis actually is a little bit of a different plant. And there are these like small things that I really have to tweak when you’re coming from the commercial ag side.
[00:09:20] And from the cannabis side, they’re like, man, you know, these commercial ag guys, they have actually learned some processes that are really efficient that we, I don’t know why we haven’t thought of it until now. We really should apply these. Um, so it’s really cool to see. And I think people should, um, you know, not try and have that division of like, am I a legacy go my commercial ag.
[00:09:42] As long as they don’t shit on the other side. Right. Um, just say like, cool. I learned a lot. I have a lot of skills coming with me, but I’m gonna be a lifelong learner. Always try and learn from everything that I can to apply myself to grow the best cannabis possible. I think
[00:09:58]Bryan Fields: that’s so really well said.
[00:09:59] And as the [00:10:00] industry kind of matures, the trust factor is so critical, right? Mm-hmm because what you’re able to do in small scale, when you expand out, you need extra hands and you’re not able to have that same artistic touch because it’s, it’s not as easy to touch all the plants as, as some can do as they kind of scale out.
[00:10:14] So I’m curious to know, from a trust standpoint, Nate cannabis has always kind of been a little more hush, hush and a little under the radar. How are you able to cultivate those relationships with these growers to allow you to kind of come in with a camera and start filming some of these process.
[00:10:28]Nate Lipton: Yeah, it’s when we started can cribs.
[00:10:31] Um, so the first episode we ever filmed was at glass house farms with Graham Ferra and Kelly and Ash, a few other people, um, that were out there that were business partners of his, and we, we got in the first episode because we were just like, Hey, it’s a concept Graham. And we knew Graham from, you know, just doing business and, um, on the equipment side.
[00:10:56] And he was like, yeah, you know, seems like cool [00:11:00] project. That’s the kind of guy that Graham is. He’s like down for anything. He’s like, yeah, come on, bring, bring a bunch of cameras. Yeah. I’ll let you in the facility, we’ll run around. Cool. Did that, you know, um, we were not efficient at all. There was like a 10 person team, which is still around 10 people.
[00:11:15] And then it took us like literally like six to eight months to edit that episode. And then we launched it on YouTube and we had no idea whether it was gonna like do well or not. And. Did pretty well, like picked up a lot of steam, got a lot of views. And we were like, cool. Like people started to take notice.
[00:11:31] People would be like messaging me in the industry and be like, yo, I saw that like thing that you did, that was pretty rad. And we were like, Hey, you know, we like lost our ass financially on this first one, but we might be able to like monetize this thing in a way we can keep it going. You know, we could do it more often.
[00:11:48] And um, I ended up calling another one of our customers, which was, um, fat panned up in Washington, golden pineapple. Yeah. Yeah. So they, you know, they have awesome branding. [00:12:00] Rob is their CEO. Yeah. I walked
[00:12:01]Kellan Finney: around the facility. I spent a lot of time with Rob. I’ve worked with them closely. Nice. Uh, when I was in Washington, I mean, so impressive.
[00:12:07] They’re they, they took, they turned that Pepsi co facility into super, super impressed with their
[00:12:12]Nate Lipton: facility up in SPO. Yeah. It’s and yeah, F Panda great brand, Rob crazy guy. He’s just like fan, you know? Totally. Um, but yeah, we went up and I was like, Hey, can we do this? And he, he has a little bit of a marketing mind.
[00:12:27] I would say, you know, actually not a little bit. He has a lot of a marketing mind and he was like, yeah, this would be great. You know, like I’m trying to build a brand, the, you know, the Washington market’s pretty busy. So we film that episode and we, we, what we do is we, how we monetize the thing. Like, it’s not a secret and I’m not trying to hide this from anyone, but like, Basically, we go to a facility and, you know, we ask them for just like, okay, what’s all the kind of equipment that you’re using.
[00:12:55] Cool. Then we touch base with those, those, uh, equipment providers. And we say like, [00:13:00] Hey, we’re gonna go film an episode here. Um, if you help us fund the episode and pay for production, we’ll, you know, give you a little bit more time on camera. We’d love to like, help get a testimonial from the farm of how they like using your product.
[00:13:12] And that’s how it works. And that’s what helps pay for production. So, um, we did it and then that episode we didn’t lose money. We’re like, holy shit. Okay. We can keep this thing going, you know? And I think now we’re at like episode 40 or something like that. I don’t even know how many episodes we’ve done, but we had to get a second host cuz like I don’t actually have the bandwidth to host all the episodes and we have autumn, um, from col Tevo, she’s a really awesome host and a really great cannabis grower.
[00:13:41] But, uh, you know, my day job is like running this business. You know, we got like 70 plus people, mainly we help equip facilities and consult. So that’s kind of the day job doing the candy Crips thing is more like the, on the weekends, every three months, fly out, film a few episodes, then come back to life [00:14:00] and reality, you know, how
[00:14:02]Bryan Fields: long are the reportings?
[00:14:03] Because you cut up a 45, well put together documentary. So my assumption there has to be a ton of extra footage that has to get sliced down in there. So how long is the total recording and how long does it take from when you let’s say you show up on a Wednesday, do you record three straight days?
[00:14:18]Nate Lipton: How does that work?
[00:14:19] Yeah, so dude, it’s like, I mean, we have so many terabytes of footage. It’s like wild, how much we film. Um, each like each episode can be over a terabyte, um, worth of just like photos and video. So there’s quite a bit, but. You know, we have to plan it with the farm, orchestrate it. They have to be ready. Our team has to be ready, all everyone to fly out converge.
[00:14:41] Um, so it’s like three months planning ahead of time. Sometimes even more in four months before we even get there, then we fly out there. It’s usually, you know, we have a, maybe like a dinner with the, uh, farm the night before just like, Hey, let’s break bread, meet you, meet everyone. Let me hear about your story a [00:15:00] little bit.
[00:15:00] So we can kind of think about what direction the episode will go. And then it’s usually two full days, like 12 hour days of filming. Um, and then we fly out. Um, and then, uh, it probably takes another 30 days to edit the episode ish. Now it used to take a lot longer, but we’ve gotten a little bit of a process.
[00:15:21] And then, uh, yeah, you’ll see it go live.
[00:15:24]Bryan Fields: I mean, I saw one of your episodes with jungle bloods and I was just fascinated with the type of questions you’re asking about like how many people have been in this room and he looked at you and he was like, maybe five, including you. And it’s just like, I know.
[00:15:35] Yeah. Wild to think that they like opened up their doors to allow you to come in and ask the type of questions you did, which were exceptional because. I mean, you can’t find that information elsewhere on the internet. So was that experience different than the others? I mean, that had to have blown you away when he only said five people.
[00:15:50]Nate Lipton: Yeah, it is. And it’s, you know, the, both of the jungle boys facility and a few other facilities they’ve said like, yeah, you’re the first crew that we’ve ever allowed in here. [00:16:00] And we try and, you know, respect that quite a bit. Cause when you go into a cannabis operation, look, there’s a risk of letting a camera crew in because you know, what you’re scared of is will these people mess up, you know, our workflow or our processes or even worst case, are they not gonna respect our SOPs of cleanliness and bring something in that could damage our crop?
[00:16:22] And you know, we never, um, want that to happen. Um, because it would, you know, really tarnish our reputation. I mean, it’d be bad for the farm. It would be a lose, lose, lose, you know, like no one would be happy. So our crew. You know, uh, the people on the crew they’re a lot of ’em are cannabis growers themselves.
[00:16:41] We are very, very adamant that when we go in, you know, we’re like twice as clean as everyone else in the facility, you know, we’ve even people don’t see this, but we have like ISO isoprol alcohol, like our equipment, you know, before going in and, you know, wear lab coats. And we just try [00:17:00] and make sure that we’re really, um, kind of responsible and respectful of the facility when we go into it.
[00:17:05] But it is cool that they let us in and do that. And, you know, as some farms have said is, uh, which we didn’t intend, but it makes a lot of sense. They’re like, you know, we have to give tours all the time, whether it’s investors or you gotta bring a bank through, or I don’t know, you have to, there’s all these people that want to come through.
[00:17:20] And they’re like, after we filmed an episode, we don’t let them come through. We just send them the episode. And so by letting us come in once with 10 people, for two days, they can prevent like hundreds of people touring me up, touring their facility. And I was like, oh shit, that’s right. So now I tell farms that, and then they’re like, oh yeah, that does make sense.
[00:17:40] Yeah. Come on down. you know, so there’s these little like unintended consequences or cool outcomes that have come from it. Um, obviously just making friends and networking in the industry and learning some of the best practices, seeing what people are up to. I mean, that’s, that’s rad. So yeah, I think, I
[00:17:58]Bryan Fields: think it’s massive for [00:18:00] the industry.
[00:18:00] I think it’s great for consumers who can get to see behind the scenes look, and for some of those operators who maybe used to not be comfortable being on camera, that’s a big step forward for them to be associate. Right. You’re asking someone how long they’ve worked for some of these companies and 10, 15, 20 years.
[00:18:14] That’s a, that’s a substantial career in a space that for a while, wasn’t so comfortable with being on camera, published on social media.
[00:18:23]Nate Lipton: Yeah, exactly. And, uh, it’s cool hearing their stories too. Like almost everyone we go to it’s like. You, you know, you’re talking to, uh, companies that are doing seven, eight, even nine figures in business.
[00:18:35] And the guy was like, oh yeah, I was started dealing when I was 13. And then I started blowing out houses and, uh, yeah, next thing you know, went legal and I started to get legit and you’re like, cool. You know, like, those are, those are rad stories to hear RA than the guy who’s like, yeah, I own, uh, 37 other companies.
[00:18:53] And I, uh, allocated some, uh, equity over here and I acquired my 38th and yeah, I hope the macroeconomic [00:19:00] environment really supports it. You know? ,
[00:19:03]Bryan Fields: I feel like that’s a new Yorker you had in mind from like a big
[00:19:06]Nate Lipton: suited person when you were given that canvas statement.
[00:19:09]Kellan Finney: So which one of your guests,
[00:19:11]Bryan Fields: or which one of the facilities on can cribs, did you think one thing going in, but absolutely shocked you when you were leaving.
[00:19:17] You’re like, wow. I, I completely MIS misrepresent or MIS thought about that, that guess prior to going in.
[00:19:24]Nate Lipton: Um, wow dude. So many of them I met, what, what I might do is speak to some of the most recent ones we just filmed. Perfect. Um, I just got back from filming can antibiotics in Los Angeles and then Glasshouse brands, um, in which is like carpenter slash Santa Barbara area.
[00:19:45] And for those of you who don’t know the Glasshouse brands, they were also our first episode ever. So us going back and filming them now, um, they’re the first episode we’ve ever filmed where it’s like a follow up. Like five years later [00:20:00] and it’s like, cool. They had like a 150 or 300,000 square feet. Their facility now is insane.
[00:20:06] Yeah. Since then, like, you know, this like 5.5 million square foot tomato greenhouse became available on the market. And he was like, grandma’s like, and Kelly were like, yeah, well, we can’t afford it, but I guess if we go public, we could raise enough money and buy it, you know? And that’s what they did. Like, that’s the kind of craziness these guys are.
[00:20:26] But the cool thing is Graham is also like one of those guys that I told you who was like, grew up in Santa Barbara, surfing guy, you know, growing in like property that he shouldn’t have thinking, well, maybe it’s some water that you shouldn’t have or something like that. And now he’s running like one of the biggest cannabis companies in the us and.
[00:20:45] I think there are a lot of people who like, look at that and they’re like, oh, public cannabis company, dude, you know, screw that. That’s against like the ethos of what’s happening. And I think to myself, I’m like, cool, well, you can either have like Philip Morris running that facility, or you could have someone like Graham, [00:21:00] so pick your poison and I’d way rather have someone like Graham, like that guy is cool as shit.
[00:21:05] Like, um, so, you know, as, as things happen in the industry, you can’t please, everyone, you know, there’s gonna be a lot of haters. I would just say think twice before, you know, you just immediately blurt out that like people doing cannabis on a large scale is a bad thing. A hundred percent of the time. It can be bad thing.
[00:21:24] Not gonna say it’s not, but not a hundred percent of the time. So let me, oh yeah, sorry. I was circling around. I’m gonna answer part of that question though. Really fast. Cause I realize, dude, I just start speaking and I just go off, right? Like I go into first gear? I’m like in six, you know? Uh, but on the antibiotic side, what I didn’t know is that they have like the number one selling flower strain in all of California called cereal milk.
[00:21:51] I believe it was. And I was like, dude, these guys came outta nowhere and they do all their own research and development at their facility. Um, cross breeding, strains, [00:22:00] pollination, like pheno typing tissue culture. Tons of cool shit. I had no idea about that going into it. I think those guys are create, like I was speaking to the owner and he was.
[00:22:10] I was like, you ever sell like your genetics? And he is like, no, I’ve had people out for me, like 50 gram for like one clone before. And he is, turned it down. I was like, damn mad respect, you know? And then when it, you know, it came to Glasshouse brands and, and gram for, and things like that. I guess one of the weird things is like, I heard that.
[00:22:28] Um, yeah, I’m trying to think about it probably. Well, let’s think of the antibiotics one when it comes to the Glasshouse one, I kind of knew what I was jumping into. Cause I’ve known Graham for some, some time and I knew he what he was up to. So that one, I think I understood what was going on. But if I think of some other cool ones throughout this episode, I’ll interject and stuff.
[00:22:50] So you, I mean, you went to Glasshouse
[00:22:52]Kellan Finney: five years ago and now you, you went back for a follow up episode. Was there any. Has there been any like specific technology, especially cuz you’re on the [00:23:00] supply side as well. Is there any specific technology now that like Glasshouse integrated into their, um, operation that wasn’t there five years ago that’s been kind of a game changer for them?
[00:23:12] Um, or is it just kind of getting more commercial ag stuff in
[00:23:15]Nate Lipton: these facilities? Yeah, I would say, um, yeah, there are things that have changed over the last five years. And the weird thing about cannabis is like the, the, uh, technological innovation for cultivating on the cannabis side is just, it’s crazy.
[00:23:32] It’s going at such a fast rate. It’s so much faster than like any other. Agricultural sector. Like there’s not enough money in lettuce for someone to invest, you know, half a billion dollars into R and D . Right. It’s just, we peaked, we peaked on the lettuce train , but uh, you know, there’s so much cool stuff like it it’s just that that crop is so valuable.
[00:23:57] People will spend money to optimize it, right. [00:24:00] Once the price per pound of cannabis is a hundred dollars, there’s probably gonna be less innovation. But until then, um, you know, a lot of people will be funneling their, um, we’ll call it their, you know, profits into R and D and optimization. One of the biggest ones is definitely LEDs.
[00:24:17] Five years ago, everyone was shitting on LEDs. They’re like, it is, are crap. You know, never use L E D and now it’s like, you’re not, you know, you, you you’re basically, if you’re not using LEDs, it’s probably cuz of a cash constraint, um, cash flow purposes. But other than that, every it’s like almost, um, unilaterally understood that it’s just like, yeah, you use LEDs for production.
[00:24:40] They’re gonna be more efficient, give you a better product. So Glasshouse is using LEDs, um, where they really weren’t before it was more of just growing with the sun. Um, and maybe some HPS or IDs. Um, I will also say like, You know, there’s people have gotten a lot better on [00:25:00] the cannabis side of using less pesticides and herbicides and insecticides and trying to optimize basically like root zone health, use beneficial insects.
[00:25:12] Some of the things that more of that I think is adopted from the commercial ag side. Whereas back in the day with cannabis, they were just like, see a bug nuke, the room, you know,
[00:25:23]Kellan Finney: everything in Eagle 20. Yeah. Every, every clone
[00:25:26]Nate Lipton: gets dipped. having forbid, you know, everything like that. And it’s like, no, we’re testing stuff now.
[00:25:32] Like let’s find a more elegant and healthy way to treat the plants. So, you know, that’s a. A big shift. And then I would say controls like now these days, like if you don’t have a controller that like pings you with a text message and email, when like any parameters out of whack, then you’re doing it wrong.
[00:25:50] Like you’re living in the stone age. So those are some of the things that I’m seeing. But, um, other than that, I mean like, yeah, still grown in cocoa, still using, you know, [00:26:00] uh, what I would call elemental salts and nutrient side and yeah. Still, still growing plants.
[00:26:06]Bryan Fields: Do you think they’re leaning on technology for, because of margin compression to optimize?
[00:26:11] Is it a, is it a mixture of both perspectives? Like what do you think is leading bigger brands to make the move for advancements in
[00:26:17]Nate Lipton: technology and automation? Yeah, I think it’s always a question of return on investment. So, you know, someone comes to you and says like, look, man, you spend a hundred bucks and you’re gonna get 300 back by implementing this in your facility.
[00:26:30] Most people are gonna say yes. So, um, They’re getting 300 back because, and you know, it’s a direct function of the price of cannabis though. Price of cannabis drops. Now that three to one ROI could go to two to one, or if it’s a one to one. Now shit, we’re not spending money, we’re not investing in research, you know, those types of things, but, um, yeah, all turns out to be more ROI based, which is, uh, kind [00:27:00] of interesting.
[00:27:00] Yeah. I mean, we’re, we’re doing a lot of studies with that. Um, like I said, we have a consulting group, can groups consulting. We have, you know, an awesome team, two PhDs along with a few other guys that are wicked smart, you know, director of science, Aurora, um, first, um, first PhD in cannabis cultivation, north America, Darren on our team.
[00:27:21] Awesome. Dude, they’ve run a whole bunch of like side by side testing Canada. They actually. Have a, uh, Canadian government licensed cannabis research facility, which you can’t even have in the us where, you know, the Canadian government gives these different licenses out. Some are like production licenses, like Aurora and canopy have, and all that, the research ones you can grow cannabis, send it to testing labs, do a whole bunch of side by sides, write academic papers on it.
[00:27:49] But then at the end you have to take the cannabis and destroy it. So you can’t sell it. Um, so we have one of those up there and, um, yeah, we’re testing like nutrients doing [00:28:00] side by sides. There’s just one that we tested the flavor, nutrient additive, where like increased the yield by 14% versus the control, um, in a statistically significant, you know, well done white paper that we’re publishing online, uh, here on the Ventana plant science website.
[00:28:20] And so that’s a good product. They’re also running tests for a lot of other nutrient companies who are just like there’s nutrient companies who come out and they’re like, Cool. We, um, work in, you know, maybe a different like ornamental flowers, but they have something that works really well for flowers.
[00:28:35] They’ll send it to these guys who will do a side by side on cannabis and then give them the results. And if it does have like, you know, uh, let’s just call it desired effects on the cannabis plant, then maybe that nutrient company will then bring a product into the cannabis industry. So our team does those kind of side by side tests for companies.
[00:28:56] And it’s cool. Cause we clean information on what’s working what [00:29:00] isn’t, but look, there’s a lot of stuff they test that literally like doesn’t do anything. You know, they tell me the majority of stuff they test just like actually is just like marketing hype doesn’t really do anything. So the cool thing is we can take some of this knowledge and obviously their academic knowledge, everything they’ve done and we can implement it on the consulting side so that we make like our customers have what we think is all the best, um, knowledge available on growing cannabis.
[00:29:24] You know, do you guys, uh,
[00:29:26]Kellan Finney: screen some of those ornamental nutrients as well for like other ingredients? Because I know within the ornamental market, they’re not required to disclose, um, all the other ingredients besides the active ingredients. So is that kind of some of the services that you provide? Um, the cultivators up there as well?
[00:29:43] Um, I, I just know from experience that like some PIRE can get in that aren’t the major product and then you get a, a random fail if you’re in California for that kind of stuff. So are those, uh, kinda like safety measures and those kind of, um, research projects that you guys conduct as well up in Canada?[00:30:00]
[00:30:00]Nate Lipton: You know, that’s interesting. You brought that up. I, um, all the studies that are done on the nutrients are really efficacy trials. Yep. Um, rather than us operating more, like, let’s say, I’ll call it the California department of, you know, um, what is it? Co department CD F a of farm and agriculture. I think it is.
[00:30:18] Yeah. That’s exactly what it’s. Yeah. Um, where they would be like, cool. You wanna sell your product in this state? Give us your MSDS. And then, you know, they might have the product tested themselves before they green light it to be used. But no, we don’t do something like what the California department, um, the pharma culture.
[00:30:35] But I think we could, I just don’t think anyone’s asked us for, they’re just looking usually for more efficacy trials. Yeah. That makes sense. That makes sense. Yeah.
[00:30:42]Bryan Fields: See if it works, can you expand on the differences of the two for those who might be unfamiliar with the differences in the.
[00:30:48]Nate Lipton: Yeah. The differences between like testing for efficacy versus testing for like, whether there’s something harmful on the nutrient that shouldn’t be like used on something that’s ingested.
[00:30:58] Yeah. Yeah. So like [00:31:00] really, you know, the efficacy trials, usually they’re focused on three things, so they’re focused on. Does it increase yield, or does it increase quality, which is measured usually by cannabinoids or terpenes or, you know, things of that nature. And then, um, you know, on the other side, you know, let’s say it’s a nutrient, you’re just trying to figure out if it’s safe, you’re really looking for, you know, um, yeah.
[00:31:23] Are there any heavy metals, you know, in the nutrient, are there any things that are on a list of things that are in concentrations where they would not be healthy? If someone ingested either by eating a product or smoking a product that it was grown with. Um, and even going back to those pesticides, like Abid and forbid that we were chatting about earlier, like Eagle 20, like those are for ornamentals.
[00:31:44] Those are not for crops that you’re meant to like eat or smoke. Like , they’re not fat stuff. So like they work well, though. They, they do work extremely well likes. Yeah. But you know, it’ll kill you if you eat it too. [00:32:00] So like, there it is. There’s the, there’s the big butt. Yeah. There’s the big butt. So don’t use that stuff.
[00:32:07] But the good thing is most states right now they do testing prior to products going on market. Yeah. So like, if it someone’s using that stuff in your cannabis, in like any legal state, you’re not buying like black market weed, you can be pretty rest assured that it doesn’t have that stuff in. It agreed.
[00:32:22] Um, but it’d be good as a grower to like, you know, not obviously use a product, go through a whole harvest, send it to a lap, find out it failed, then you just lose probably millions of dollars. So, um, yeah. I, I think any product that would be used that way would. you know, uh, have a pretty bad reputation pretty quickly.
[00:32:42] Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Yep. Nate, what is
[00:32:45]Bryan Fields: one factor statistic about growing cannabis that would shock 90% of the cannabis industry?
[00:32:55]Nate Lipton: Oh, shit.[00:33:00]
[00:33:01] That,
[00:33:04] you know, I don’t know if this would shock them, but I mean, here’s two things that maybe this is more market dynamic based, but you know, I think the cost of production for cannabis, like it’s gonna be commoditized and it’s gonna be like a hundred bucks a pound in like probably 10 years, something like that.
[00:33:29] Like it’s, it’s gonna be a commodity, just like any other thing that you. Grow, you know, just like you’re thinking about grain or strawberries, people buying futures on cannabis and you know, things like that. Um, and you know, another thing that I think in the market, like I don’t see in the next 10 years, there’s gonna be any interstate commerce of cannabis.
[00:33:47] Even if it goes federally legal, none, you don’t see any, I, I don’t think that’s gonna happen. I think there might be like three states that would allow exportation, um, maybe importation, but the other like [00:34:00] 47 states will be like, nah, we’re not allowing that because they’ve already built cannabis commissions who regulate the industry within their state.
[00:34:09] and they get a lot of tax revenue and jobs from it. And as soon as you allow things to cross state borders, um, at least in a wholesale way, I don’t mean like, oh yeah, you buy a joint in Cali and you drive to Arizona. And it’s like, all of a sudden, you know, you have the DEA rating or something. But what I mean is like, I don’t think there’s gonna be like a dispensary in Cali who wholesales a hundred pounds to a dispensary in Arizona.
[00:34:35] That for example, is what I don’t think is gonna happen because, you know, Cali would have a pretty big advantage on growing cannabis over Arizona and Arizona would see their cannabis market dry up pretty quickly, which would be a big hit to their tax revenue. So every rapid Senator who wants to protect, you know, their budget would vote against.
[00:34:56]Bryan Fields: What about states like New York that maybe don’t have optimal growing [00:35:00] conditions that have a big appetite for cannabis. What do you think will happen there from, let’s say a price standpoint. If California can grow it at a really low level, New York is, is, I
[00:35:08]Nate Lipton: mean, nobody wants to, yeah, it’ll be a little bit more in New York and you know, it’ll take a little bit more to grow.
[00:35:13] You’ll have to grow in greenhouses, um, to grow year round versus some other places where you can, so price will be a little bit higher and you’ll employ more people.
[00:35:22]Bryan Fields: Yeah. Good old money. Right. Influences a
[00:35:24]Nate Lipton: lot of decisions. It does. Yeah. But, um, maybe going down to like, I’m trying to think most of the stuff, like I don’t, when it actually comes to like the biology of the plant and growing cannabis.
[00:35:38] I would say this actually. So two things that I think one THC and any cannabinoid testing is pretty imperfect. So like, if you’re like buying something that’s 25%, like you could test parts of that same plant that would register like probably 30% and some that would register like 18%. Yeah. [00:36:00] And, you know, I don’t think people understand the variability of THC testing.
[00:36:04] And, uh, also when you do blind smoking, when you basically remove the THC, you just have people smoke. It usually the intensity, the high does not correlate with the percentage of THC actually on the bud Uh, so I think, you know, people need something to like figure out what the quality is. And like THC is kinda like the only objective indicator out there.
[00:36:26] So people gotta use it. So like, I don’t blame people for using it, but I would say. don’t think that it’s like, you know, the G you know, the, the north star that’s gonna guide you , you know, to where you want to go necessarily. So relax a little bit on that. Say just smoke something, see how it works with your body, you know, try to remember that strain, if it does.
[00:36:45] What’s your
[00:36:45]Bryan Fields: thoughts on the indica versus sativa conversation that’s currently happening? Is that good for the industry? Is that bad for the industry? Is it good for consumers? What do you feel about
[00:36:54]Nate Lipton: that? You know, I think humans naturally just love to categorize and organize things. [00:37:00] It’s just so much, yeah.
[00:37:03] So much cleaner for your head. I love to organize things and categorize ’em put ’em in buckets, but yeah, it seems like those buckets are a little bit more artificial, um, right now than maybe useful, um, is what I would say. So it just comes back to like, your mileage may vary, you know, like. It’s even funny, like people, you know, I have a fiance.
[00:37:25] Right. And when I was growing up, I could be like, yeah, you know, and this is not true, but just hypothetically I’m into blondes. And then you like meet a brunette and she’s awesome. You’re like, oh, well, shit, guess I’m into brunettes. You know, like you like women.
[00:37:41]Bryan Fields: Right? Right. Like, yeah. You
[00:37:43]Nate Lipton: like women. That is the category.
[00:37:44] Yeah. But it’s like, so, you know, you like weed, you like smoke this blue dream. That was like 30%. You’re like, you know, I’m gonna love that shit, you know? And then you smoke it and it’s high, but then you smoke this granddaddy purp. I was like 14%. You’re like, shit, dude. I love granddaddy purpose 14%. And I really [00:38:00] thought I was gonna love this banger over here, but that’s not the case.
[00:38:03] You know, it’s like, you kind of have to just like experience it. And since everybody’s biology is so different, it’s like, man, just take those categories, throw ’em out the window and realize we don’t fucking know anything, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I agree. What is your favorite strain? Ooh, dream Walker. So that’s the best one that I just had the most pleasant and it’s, it’s like so hard to find these days are so many strains.
[00:38:29] It’s like, if you smoke something once, like even just finding it again could be a mission, you know? Yeah. Um, but I had this in Cali, like yeah, probably brown five years ago. And it was just like, literally I smacked it. And I just like, felt like I was like meditating for like three hours, you know? Like, but that, that, like, if you meditate in that like part where you get where you’re like, okay, I’m in it, you know, like I’m in the zone right now.
[00:38:52] Like I just felt like that for like three hours. And I was like, this is dope, you know? So I like that one, but I also more of like, , [00:39:00] you know, I’m more of like a nighttime smoker. Uh, so I’m more smoke, you know, kind of like when the seven to 8:00 PM kind of rolls around and that’s usually when I do it, I’m usually not too good at being like productive and smoking or like daytime going out with the friends and smoking as much.
[00:39:16] Yeah. I mean, I go out, but I just don’t talk,
[00:39:17]Kellan Finney: you know?
[00:39:18]Nate Lipton: Yeah. No, and I, obviously you can tell, I talk a fair amount when I smoke. I kind of slow down a little bit. People what’s wrong with you. Yeah. You know, people who know me, I’m like, dude, just super high in the corner. Like smile. Like I’m totally fine. You go get some food food too.
[00:39:37] So who ISN’
[00:39:38]Bryan Fields: under the radar grower brand or strain that you think will explode over the next
[00:39:42]Nate Lipton: two? Hmm, dude grower my man miles. Sadowski I gotta give that guy a shout out. I love that guy to death. He’s uh, a grower out here in Tucson. Arizona grows for Earth’s healing. [00:40:00] Um, I don’t know. His Instagram handle is like miles for grow or something.
[00:40:05] I’m gonna give him a good shout out. I’ll find him while we’re chatting. But that guy literally, you know, he started legacy dude, like, you know, blown out shit. Next thing, you know, get thrown into the fire, you know, just like running a small facility out here in Arizona. Self-taught like everything wicked smart.
[00:40:23] Um, and now he just built out like 140,000 square foot, like, uh, greenhouse on top of the indoor they’re growing out here and he just like everything he reads, he just absorbs and you just have a conversation with him. He is so casual. He’s like my age. We both DJ and like hang out together, um, just casually.
[00:40:42] But that guy is like, he’s a, he’s one of those guys that like, is so humble and then you have a conversation with him and he just like, blows your mind you. Right. Um, so I love miles. I think he should, he he’ll be doing big things in the future. He just had two kids though. So he was probably pretty busy.
[00:40:59][00:41:00] Um, and then cannabis brand that I think is gonna blow up who who’s doing something well, you know, this isn’t a brand in particular, but this is more of a trend I’m gonna put out there. And some brands are jumping on this trend, but, uh, like for example, have you guys ever tried any of like the, uh, kind of water soluble, nano emulsified edibles?
[00:41:24] Yes. Yeah. I,
[00:41:27]Bryan Fields: so many of them at this point now, I don’t, I know maybe like I just wanna pop em in as soon as I get them.
[00:41:33]Nate Lipton: So those are becoming more and more popular and. What I do see in the future. I think, you know, if I were to like guess is like, I’ve seen some sodas come out where they’re like trying to be like the alternative to white claw where it’s like, you know, it comes on in 15 minutes and it’s done in like an hour or an hour and a half.
[00:41:51] So it’s like, you can take an edible and you’re not high for like eight hours, you know? And like they have those on the edible side. I think they’re gonna have them in like nasal [00:42:00] sprays. They’ll have ’em in drinks and it’s gonna change the game on edibles and edibles are so much more discreet than smoking that I think that is gonna be a huge trend.
[00:42:10] And I see some brands jumping on getting those products kind of first to market in some states. How, how would you
[00:42:16]Bryan Fields: know that those are, that, are they labeled on the, on the product or are they just described
[00:42:20]Nate Lipton: a different way? Yeah, they usually are labeled that way. Yeah. But if you like go into, if you’re like in a recreational or medical market and you walk in the dispensary or you just call them, be like, Hey, do you have any like fast acting or nano emulsified product?
[00:42:33] They’ll tell you, or if they have no idea what you’re talking about, they probably don’t. So probably I know like, yeah, like usually it says like nano emulsified or fast acting or something like that. Like I think one gummies. Yeah. W quick, I think they called them. Yeah. Yeah. So they came out with some, um, planet 13 had their high, high drink.
[00:42:52] That was kinda like the Whitelaw type thing. Yeah. Can the, yeah, so there’s, you know, there’s a company called [00:43:00] source O R S E. That makes that product. It’s like the, the input that a lot of people would be licensing to put in that stuff. So if you’re a canvas brand, you wanna do it hit up source, shout out, Joe.
[00:43:11] I do not get paid for this. I don’t even know who runs the company. Like , we’re gonna, we’re gonna send
[00:43:15]Bryan Fields: Joe at source an invoice after this
[00:43:16]Nate Lipton: first. Yeah. Got a love, Joe. Cool. Cool. Sounds good. Yeah. Give me five bucks too, for a drink, right?
[00:43:26]Bryan Fields: what is one takeaway you found through your experience that most growers, our facilities are overlook.
[00:43:35]Nate Lipton: Well that are overlooking. Hmm. I think there’s a, in California, not so much, but I think in a lot of other states, they’re not doing testing in their plans for certain viruses, um, hop late and Throid is probably the most well known and popular one. And, um, What happens when you have plants and plants can have [00:44:00] like varying degrees of H L V.
[00:44:03] Uh, so it’s not like, you know, it’s not binary. It’s not like you have it, or you don’t, it’s like your plant can be kind of infected medium infected or super infected. But what can happen is if this is barely infected, you’re just like, man, you know, my yields are going down a little bit and my testing results on the cannabinoid side are going down.
[00:44:22] And like, that’s one of the indicators that you could have HIV along with a few other. Kind of morphological things in the plant, but I think there’s a lot more people who are growing, who have HLV in their gardens, who don’t know they have it and are having like issues where like, you know, their yield is just slowly going down over time and they’re like, oh, I gotta switch my moms out.
[00:44:44] Oh, I gotta switch the lighting. You gotta switch the nutrients, my light, you know, there’s some weird happening and it’s just like, HLV you gotta get your plants tested, take some plant tissue, get it tested to figure out if you have it. And you know, the problem is that like the good thing is plants don’t really [00:45:00] pass it from like, just hanging out in the same room.
[00:45:03] It’s kind of like aids. You have to like pass it via like, you know, uh, tissue or like blood, things like that. But usually how people get it is like, um, cutting clones. You’ll cut one from one mother and it’s on your blade. And then you cut another one from another mother, and now you just transferred it to that club from one mother to another.
[00:45:22] Okay. Um, they even found out that it can transfer like through seeds, so you can have a seed that has HLV right out of the gate. So you should still be testing things like that. But, um, that’s one thing you should definitely watch out for. I’d say
[00:45:37]Bryan Fields: that’s a good one. Mm-hmm , since you’ve been in the Canna industry, what has been the biggest misconception?
[00:45:45]Nate Lipton: Mm. Maybe that everyone’s just killing it, like rolling in money every night. Like , you know, I think a lot of people assume that I think it was like a study that came out that was like, you know, two thirds of like cannabis [00:46:00] businesses that have within the last five years are still not profitable. Yeah. Um, yeah.
[00:46:05] And you know, just because it’s got the allure, like this black market appeal where you’re just like, you know, PABs of our. Your money. It’s like, it’s not like that. It’s just another business. And honestly, there’s not a lot of great guidelines on how to run the business. Well, that’s why there are a lot of consulting groups, uh, like ours are trying to take some best practices and apply them to different people.
[00:46:26] Um, help them out, become successful faster, like learn from other people’s mistakes, not your own. Um, but yeah, man, it’s, uh, it’s a new industry. People are still trying to pave the way I would say the road to success right now is still like, uh, a muddy trench. Yeah. It’s not like a well paved road, you know?
[00:46:45] So, uh, that’s a big one, you know, mm-hmm , before
[00:46:50]Bryan Fields: we do predictions, we ask all of our guests, if you could sum up your experience in a main takeaway or lesson learned to pass onto the next generation, what would it be?[00:47:00]
[00:47:03]Nate Lipton: Um,
[00:47:08] yeah, I would say. It probably has to do a little bit with just a little bit of putting yourself outside of your comfort zone and just trying to start, start at the bottom if you really want to be somewhere, but make it known that you want to learn and you want to grow. Don’t assume that other people are gonna know that and that they’re just gonna like throw you on the back of their coattails and take you with them.
[00:47:38] Like, say like look down and put in the work, but I want to be constantly progressing and getting better. And I’m willing to put myself outside of my comfort zone to do that. And look for, you know, I think the most learning I’ve done in this industry, or just in my professional life have been the days that have been really hard and really shitty.[00:48:00]
[00:48:00] Um, those are definitely the ones that provided the most growth for me. The days that go really well are nice to have, but if you just have those days, you’re gonna have a full sense that you’re actually good at something. Um, cuz you’re probably not you’re just like misattributing the fact that everything is going well to it being something that you brought about.
[00:48:24] I mean, humans just fucking, I’m telling you, man, I don’t even know if I can swear here, but I’ll just yeah, yeah. Just I’ll start it over. Cause humans, you know, um, have a natural inclination to just, uh, have, uh, good days and bad days and just find your own way to weather the bad days because um, then the good ones will come and.
[00:48:51] You’re gonna be a stronger person for it. Probably something related to that. That’s really well said. Thanks.
[00:48:57]Bryan Fields: All right. Prediction time, Nate. Okay. It’s [00:49:00] 2028. When you walk into dispensary to buy flour, what characteristics will help consumers select the product of their choice?
[00:49:10]Nate Lipton: Hmm. Interesting. I like this question, man.
[00:49:14] This is good. You guys have found some good questions. Hmm. Okay. Um, I think what would be really cool is to figure out some type of like cannabis, genetics, you know, if we can really attribute them to like where in. The world. We think that we first had a record of that product being grown. It’d be really cool to like look at the genetic material.
[00:49:46] Like I’m assuming genetic testing is gonna become way cheaper six years from now, but, um, you know, you’d be able to tell like, oh man, this is like, from the middle east, this is some like Afghani stuff. And, [00:50:00] you know, maybe there’s we come up with a better way to like isolate more cannabinoids and the artificial intelligence ends up figuring out the interaction of some of these cannabinoids terpenes a little bit better.
[00:50:11] And, you know, by figuring out those interactions are, maybe it’s funny, we might come up with new buckets to put things in, you know, and I almost think of it like the Myers Briggs test, you know, there’s like I N TJ and all of those kind of things. There’s all these like 16 buckets that. You know, you can put things in like with cannabis.
[00:50:32] I think you, we might end up coming up with our own buckets that we make based off of kind of, uh, AI figuring out what the actually, so let me see, you have a background in biology, so let’s see. How would someone, what would we call that? The interplay between multiple variables, polyp pharma. Okay.
[00:50:57]Kellan Finney: Yes.
[00:50:57] Right. So currently it’s only single [00:51:00] APIs is how the pharmaceutical industry treats diseases. Mm-hmm and that’s why like Marinol and syntax, which is just THC molecule. That’s why they never really took off with like chemotherapy as a treatment because there’s that missing variable besides just THC. So like, if you ever eat Marinol, you feel really weird.
[00:51:16] If you eat in edible that you just distillate, it’s not the same as smoking flour at all, which is why wild gummies have just exploded across the entire nation is because they’re capturing the full spectrum. So they’re including all of these other. Um, final chemicals are in the plant into their gummies.
[00:51:33] Right, exactly. Um, so that’s exactly
[00:51:35]Nate Lipton: it. Yeah. And so it’d be cool if we could like find these like categorizations of buckets that we find like certain interactions work certain ways, and these are buckets that we like. Don’t even know what they are right now. Yeah, totally. Let’s and then we put ’em in there.
[00:51:47] That’s what I think the future might look like. No,
[00:51:51]Kellan Finney: and I think you’re completely right. And there’s an organization called the C E S C the clinical endo cannabinoids, uh, science consortium. And what they’re [00:52:00] doing is going through and trying to tie specific terpenes and cannabinoids, right? So like type one type two type three type one being THC, heavy type two being THC and CBD, then type three, just being CBD dominant.
[00:52:13] They’re trying to tie those three types with specific terpenes, to like a cause and effect situation. Mm-hmm um, and they’re on the brink of publishing all this data. So I don’t really want to kind of like do a spoiler alert and take their thunder from, um, but there’s come up with some really, really.
[00:52:29] Astounding, um, results and some really, really cool correlations. Um, they ran a massive dosing project is what it’s called out in California, where they had all of these consumers it’s called, um, um, an objective study. It’s not a clinical trial, right. Because everyone is willingly participating in willingly giving the information.
[00:52:48] Right. Uh, and so they took all this data from the dosing analysis as like, Hey, I tried this strain and they know that this strain has these terpenes and. Cannabinoids. And then they tried to do like a cause and effect situation, and they took these [00:53:00] massive data sets for the whole entire like California consumer market.
[00:53:03] And then they tried to correlate it to like cause and effect and they came up with some really cool correlations. Yeah. But I think they’re kind of in the last stages of publishing that information. So I don’t want to kind of like, uh, disclose anything that is about to be published by them. So, but they’re, they’re really working on it and you literally hit the nail right on the head.
[00:53:22] And I believe that that’s exactly how consumers will make those decisions in six years. And I think that the indica sativa hybrid thing is great, but I think that what this will do is kind of come in on the backside. And provide that robust scientific foundation. Cause right now it’s just really tough to know.
[00:53:41] Okay. Yeah. Blue dream should be an indica, but was that blue dream
[00:53:46]Nate Lipton: lineage?
[00:53:48]Kellan Finney: Perfect. Right. Is it the true lineage that everyone says or was one grower somewhere in the middle there being like, you know, a blue dream crushing it this year, I’m just gonna call this blue dream. No, one’s gonna know. Right. Yeah.
[00:53:58] And so there, it’s like tough [00:54:00] to say if that’s truly like a, a concrete foundation within the strain naming protocol. And I think that as the industry matures more and more science gets involved, this kind of foundation, we will actually help us sort out those kind of categories that we’ve grouped
[00:54:14]Nate Lipton: them in Zach Damo.
[00:54:15] I mean, that study sounds super interesting. I gotta get my hands on that.
[00:54:19]Kellan Finney: So I think, yeah, I’ll connect you too. Dr. John Abrams and John Tran, they’re running it’s, uh, an MD and a PhD immunologist, and they have a whole group of people. Um, love to connect to you. You can chat with them and meet super, super smart people doing.
[00:54:31] Really really robust scientific research on this stuff. So
[00:54:34]Bryan Fields: they’re also gonna publish some studies in our cannabinoid playbook. So you can definitely sit back cuz it’ll be in the playbook for the next six months. So we’ll definitely have some of that research coming out. Kevin didn’t tease it correctly.
[00:54:44] He teased it, but he didn’t give all the
[00:54:45]Nate Lipton: information on where find the information,
[00:54:47]Kellan Finney: but that’s why you’re here. I wouldn’t wanna take you
[00:54:49]Nate Lipton: under Brian, right? An playbook. Yeah, little playbook.
[00:54:55]Bryan Fields: Um, so I agree. I think the effects is definitely where we’re gonna go and we definitely need the science [00:55:00] background to kind of validate that because if you’re looking to take a creative product, let’s say during the day to spark, you know, some, some breakthroughs and some of the challenges you’re having and then you have like one of those heavy products that put you to sleep.
[00:55:10] It’s not gonna work. Right. And even more so if you, if you give it to a, a more inexperienced consumer, who’s more hesitant to try and say, Hey, like this is a more uplifting feeling. And then they experience it and it, and it puts them into the couch and they don’t like it. They might be perturbed to not try again.
[00:55:25] And I think we really need to find that that balance between side scientific information to kind of validate some of these claims and also communicating to consumers when they walk into dispensary for the first time. So they’re not overwhelmed because like, for me, I’ve only been into a large handful of dispensary since I’m, I’m locked into New York here.
[00:55:42] And when you go into these, some of these calories, these Washington dispensaries, there’s hundreds of products. And it’s like, this is almost overwhelming. I wanna buy all of these, but I also want to try new products and I’m unsure where even to start. So I would imagine some other people who have that inexperience might have that same feeling when they walk into these dispensaries for the first
[00:55:59]Nate Lipton: time.[00:56:00]
[00:56:00] Yeah. And you know, one of the interesting, the interesting things that just kind of occurred in my head, but it’s like. We have such a, um, like right now, like, I would say a little bit of like a curiosity in really figuring out like what cannabis does, what, and like what types of cannabis do you know, have certain, uh, I don’t know, effects or things like that.
[00:56:23] But then I was thinking about like beer and I’m like, man, I, I drink like a Pilsner or I drink like an IPA and I actually have like a pretty different effect from those two. And I don’t think it’s. The alcohol content. I think there’s actually more going on ES
[00:56:38]Kellan Finney: it’s like wine drunk, right? Like you get wine drunk versus beer drunk versus like, I was actually being a grad school and I was sitting with my professor and he was like, you go to a party where there’s a keg, the vibe is way different.
[00:56:50] Everyone’s like smiling, giggling, whatever. You go to a party where everyone’s just taking vodka shots, completely different thought. And like he’s saying that he was distributing it to the [00:57:00] terpenes and this was like way before cannabis was legal or anything like that. And he’s a big brew beer brewer.
[00:57:06] And I think that that also is why you saw this huge, um, influx of micro brews in the last like 15 years, because they’re increasing those Tering content and. Brewing beer has truly become a really intense, like scientific process for these micro breweries. You go to like Odells or some of these big breweries here in Colorado in Fort Collins.
[00:57:27] And they literally have like organic molecules drawn all over the entire whiteboards. And they’re all like trying to figure out what hops have, what chemicals in them to try to get the beer and the flavor. So, yeah, I think, I mean, it’s exactly it, right. I think it’s the terpenes because I mean, wine drunk is very different than,
[00:57:42]Nate Lipton: than beer drunk and beer or vodka drunk.
[00:57:44] Yeah. There’s, there’s definitely some cultural things. I think there’s, you know, Cultural things with like the, the people who take the vodka shots versus the people that drink the beer versus the people who drink the wine. , you know, there’s probably some, you know, multi-variate analysis needs to be done.
[00:57:59] That. [00:58:00] Exactly. I think the thing is like, we’re going after understanding cannabis, like so much more intensely than understanding beer. Like even though the beer people are super into it, they’re just like, oh yeah, make a beer taste. Great. And they’re more about taste and then, right. But it’s like, they kind of stop.
[00:58:17] They’re just like, now we’re just going after different flavor profiles, but they’re not saying like, oh yeah, this beer is gonna make you, you know, uh, it’s Arod easy act for you or something, or this one is gonna make you, I don’t know, give more energy or something like that. They’re not like categorizing or marketing beers that way.
[00:58:38] Which is interesting. It’s just more of like a, a little bit of a realization, but I don’t think there’s much to it. Yeah.
[00:58:45]Bryan Fields: It’s also challenging for consumers too. Right? We’re asking them to make decisions based on like form factors and then the indica, Sativa’s a common one. Then we’re asking ’em to decide on like strain names.
[00:58:54] Then we’re asking ’em to decide on, on cannabinoid content. And now we’re introducing terpenes to them. And plus, as we [00:59:00] talked forward, the combination of those variables influences outcomes completely different. So we’re kind of ch making it a little more challenging for the consumer than we should, but there’s also this balance of like the science needs to catch up.
[00:59:11] We also app the consumer needs to catch up. So we got a lot of variables. So we gotta work through in the
[00:59:15]Nate Lipton: next five to six years. Plus, you know, once you start doing something, this is maybe it goes into the cultural practice too, but there’s like, there’s a little bit of, um, Stickiness to it. That’s hard for you to like change everyone over to a new mode of thought, like every dispensary in California, you can’t just like, say, oh yeah, we’re getting rid of indica and sativa today.
[00:59:33] And then, um, yeah, we’re done with it, cuz it doesn’t really mean anything. Like people still want to shop that way. Even if they know that it’s probably wrong. Yes. Like you can’t like just take it away. It’s like, it’s gonna take years of trying to come up with some alternative to give these people before they can move off of it.
[00:59:52] So like this stuff is gonna, you know, the change there’s cool things that are happening, but. The societal change will be a little bit like [01:00:00] yeah. It’s not a light switch. No,
[01:00:01]Bryan Fields: your consumers are always right. So if they walk in, they’re asking, I’m looking for indica sativa, you know, how can you be that establishment?
[01:00:08] It’s like, you know what? We don’t have that here. We don’t abide by those
[01:00:10]Nate Lipton: principles. Those are the wrong buckets. Sorry. Yeah. Sorry. We don’t call things indica anymore. They’re gonna be like, am I in the right store? Yeah, cool. So Nate,
[01:00:20]Bryan Fields: for our listeners, they wanna get in touch. They wanna learn more and they wanna watch can cribs.
[01:00:24] Where can they find you?
[01:00:25]Nate Lipton: Yeah, so the YouTube channel is actually called growers network. The series is, can cribs on the YouTube channel growers network, uh, growers house.com is the eCommerce site where we sell everything. You need to grow cannabis, nutrients, lighting, you know, like 16,000 products, whether you’re a hobbyist or commercial grower growers, network.org.
[01:00:45] Is the forum, stuff like that. And they all have their social media channels and stuff like that. And then I have my own Instagram, Nate, DOJ, Lipton. If you want to hit me up, I respond to DMS like 90% of the time. I’d say not perfect, but I try [01:01:00] cool. We’ll link all those up in the show notes. Thanks for taking the time.
[01:01:03] Yeah. Appreciate it guys. Cool.
