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Editors’ Note: This is an excerpt from our Monthly Playbook. If you would like to read the full monthly playbook and join the thousands of others you can sign up below.

Friday May 13th saw big news released from Governor Newson’s office on the future of the cannabis industry in California. The world’s biggest cannabis market has struggled with a host of interrelated problems; high taxes, slow approval of licenses and a legacy grey market some estimate could be as high as 80% of total cannabis sales.

Some of the proposed changes to the regulations include:

• Elimination of the cultivation tax, which is currently at $161 per pound of flower
• Changes to how tax revenue is allocated
• After three years the excise tax would be increased from 15% to 18%
• Point of Collection and Remittance of the excise tax would be shifted from Distributors to Retail operations
• Launching a $20.5 million grant program to help municipalities implement retail licensing efforts; on top of $100 million already allocated to help develop local and legal cannabis markets.

The Governor of California’s proposal will need to be amended and approved by the state legislature before becoming law by the end of the 2022 legislative session ending August 31st.

Advocates welcomed eliminating the cultivation tax but there are still broad concerns within the industry about how much change these proposals will really bring about.

The California cannabis industry faces daunting challenges. A recent survey by the National Cannabis Industry Association of 396 cannabis operators found 26% of California operators are unprofitable. Federal 280E penalties on standard tax deductions combined with high state taxes are the two major barriers to profitable cannabis operations.

As of December 2021, only 161 of California’s 482 total municipalities and 24 of 58 counties allow commercial cannabis operations. This amounts to 2 retail shops per 100,000 people, a number tripled by another high cannabis state state, Washington which has 6.2 shops per 100,000 people.

The lack of access to legal cannabis retailers has ensured a thriving unregulated market continues to thrive in the Golden State. Up to 3000 unlicensed retailers and up to 50,000 unlicensed cultivation sites are estimated to be in operation. The math is simple, pay no state taxes and costs associated with state and local regulations and the price you can charge your customers drops by 50% or more.

The California cannabis industry is the oldest in the US with its landmark passage of Prop. 215 in 1996 which legalized cannabis for medical patients and began the path to what we see today with 37 medical cannabis states and 18 adult recreational states. However, in the background, California operators have always faced many heavy burdens from the state. Hundreds of federal and state police raids per year on operators were the norm not that long ago. Unfriendly and outright hostile local politicians, sheriff’s departments, bureaucrats, and neglect from Sacramento have been a feature, not a bug of doing business in California.

Since 1996 California has seen great brands, product innovations, a thriving culture and a reputation for the best cannabis in the world. Ambitious companies such as Glasshouse Brands, and 4Front along with many others continue to invest hundreds of millions of dollars into a golden future that always appears just around the corner. Faced with these challenges and concerns about a broader recession and reduced consumer spending, we’ll soon see how far away that golden future actually is.

Editors’ Note: This is an excerpt from our Monthly Playbook. If you would like to read the full monthly playbook and join the thousands of others you can sign up below.

It is not THC or CBD that makes cannabis strains unique – it is terpenes. We need a stronger focus on developing the right genetics in this industry to realize the full potential of terpenes.

What are Terpenes?

This term is used to classify the largest class of natural products, with over 50,000 known structures. However, for cannabis connoisseurs, it is the terpenes with a skeleton of up to 15 carbons that you should really care about, and there are likely hundreds present in cannabis.

How Do Terpenes Contribute to Strain Uniqueness?

Terpenes largely determine the particular smell and aroma of each strain – gassy, earthy, woody, spicy, floral, fruity, you name it. While there are other contributors, for example, sulfur-containing metabolites associated with skunkiness and esters adding sweet notes, the generally high abundance of terpenes gives them the upper hand over the other aroma volatiles.

How Do Terpenes Impact Your Experience?

The terpenes present in cannabis are not psychoactive on their own but there is scientific evidence that they can enhance or mitigate the effects of cannabinoids. The synergistic action of terpenes and cannabinoids, and possibly other cannabis metabolites, has become known as the “entourage effect”. How this works exactly is not entirely clear, as terpenes bind only weakly to the receptors known to mediate the action of cannabinoids. Unfortunately, well-designed studies with large numbers of participants to directly compare different cannabis strains are currently lacking. Despite the widespread legalization of medicinal and recreational cannabis, this has been very difficult to do in the U.S. We also need to take psychology out of the equation with double-blind studies, where neither the participant nor the researcher knows which sample the participant is testing until after the trial is over. There is an obvious financial incentive to assess the clinical efficacy of cannabis-based formulations to address specific ailments but who is going to spend copious amounts of money on investigating your experience as a recreational user? Think about it – maybe you can do some blind testing with like-minded friends who also want to know. But we also need a concerted large-scale effort to figure this out.

Are Cannabis Terpenes Special?

Well, it depends. The individual terpenes found in cannabis are very common in the plant kingdom. Myrcene is also abundant in hops; bergamot oil contains a high proportion of L-limonene; pinenes dominate the emissions from conifer trees, linalool gives lavender its floral scent, and so on. It is the singular combination of sulfur-containing (skunky) volatiles and various terpenes that give each cannabis strain its unparalleled aroma.

Can One Breed Cannabis for Specific Terpene Profiles?

Yes. By carefully selecting parents for crosses, one can obtain progeny with novel aroma characteristics. But there are limits. Based on analyses of the currently available genome sequences for common commercial cannabis strains, it appears that they all contain similar sets of terpene synthase genes, which are critical determinants for terpene diversity. Breeding for potency has evidently led to a lack of diversity in the breeding pipeline. We now need to bring back that diversity to realize the full potential of terpenes in cannabis. Developing the right genetics in this industry is going to be key for a bright future.

Editors’ Note: This is an excerpt from our Monthly Playbook. If you would like to read the full monthly playbook and join the thousands of others you can sign up below.

Editors’ Note: This is the transcript version of the podcast. Please note that due to time and audio constraints, transcription may not be perfect. We encourage you to listen to the podcast, embedded below if you need any clarification. We hope you enjoy!

This week we are joined by Kim Stuck Founder and CEO of Allay Consulting to discuss

• What is the difference between being  certified and compliant
• Number # 1 reason Cannabis operators are likely to fail 
• Do you need EuGMP & how to be ready for federal legalization
• And so much more

With offices in Colorado and Oregon, Allay Consulting guides companies through the hazards of the budding cannabis and psilocybin industries by navigating compliance pitfalls, ensuring best practices, and ultimately making sure the product you create ends up in stores, and not disposed of. With expertise from seed to sale including: FDA, cGMP, OSHA, ISO, Fire and licensing. Allay understands that every facility has different needs, must comply with different regulations and has their own unique identity. As the rules and standards of the industry continue to evolve, Allay Cannabis Consulting can save you from the headache of trying to keep up, enabling you to focus on the bigger picture.

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This show is presented to by 8th Revolution:

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At Eighth Revolution (8th Rev) we provide services from capital to cannabinoid and everything in between in regard to the hemp & cannabis industry. Our forward-thinking team can diagnose, analyze & optimize every detailed nuance of your company to keep your business safe, smart, and profitable. Our flexibility and experience combined with ongoing research create unique insights into how to best grow your market share. Contact us directly at [email protected]

Bryan Fields: @bryanfields24

Kellan Finney: @Kellan_Finney 

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[00:00:00]Bryan: What’s up guys. Welcome back to another episode of the dime I’m Brian Fields. And with me as always is Kellen Finney. And this week we’ve got a very special guest Kim stuck of a lay consulting, Kim, thanks for taking the time. How you doing?

[00:00:15]Kim: Doing good. Thank you so much for having me side diving, Kellen,

[00:00:18]Bryan: how are you

[00:00:18]Kellan: doing?

[00:00:19] I’m doing really well. I’m excited to have another Colorado person holding down the west coast. You’re going to have to represent the east coast over there.

[00:00:27]Bryan: Brian. That’s fine. I, I guess we’re just going to skip right through that and not ask him to declare where she’s located. So, Kim, I guess from an east west coast standpoint, you’d align yourself more with.

[00:00:36]Kim: Yeah. I mean, we have two locations, so we have one in Denver, Colorado, and then one in Portland, Oregon, I’m actually in the port. Well, this is my house. Cause it’s, you know, COVID world now, but this is where I live and work from. Um, but we do work on the east coast. We have a lot of clients out in New York, New Jersey, uh, Michigan, Florida.

[00:00:55] I mean, we’re all over the place. So we will work in all 50 states, including, um, even Canada, [00:01:00] Mexico, where we have clients in Israel, South Africa. It’s pretty crazy how it’s widespread.

[00:01:05]Bryan: Yeah, let’s go. Let’s go back to the origin of you. So take us through your background and how you got into the Kennedy.

[00:01:12]Kim: Yeah. So, um, I actually started as a regulator, so I, I started working for government. I was actually a restaurant and wholesale food, uh, like manufacturing, health department, person, and inspector. Uh, it was, they have like different titles for all of it. Um, but I was a public health investigator was the actual title.

[00:01:31] And, uh, it was in the, in the city of Denver, uh, was my jurisdiction. And so it was really interesting because in 2014, cannabis came as adult use came online. And everybody just kind of looked at each other and was like, okay, they’re making, you know, all kinds of edibles and tinctures and capsules and vapes.

[00:01:49] This needs to be regulated for health and safety. And so they kind of just were like, who wants to do it? And I was the one that was like, I want to do it. I want to do something different and interesting. And [00:02:00] so they were like, okay, become the cannabis specialist. And so that’s what I did. Um, and I did that for a little over three years until I started my firm LA consulting.

[00:02:09] Um, in 2017, I just really. Realized, you know, I got a huge education from the industry, right? I’m going into thousands of facilities, licensing them, learning all about their processes and those kinds of things. And. Yeah, it was, it was kind of eyeopening. How many people did not understand how to read regulations, didn’t understand how to, you know, realize what they were actually looking for.

[00:02:33] Um, and they also didn’t really know anything about health and safety. So it was very, you know, basic food safety, having enough hand sinks in the facility, washing their hands regularly, wearing PPE, like things that in other industries is kind of like commonplace. Um, weren’t existing in cannabis. So, um, a lot of people were getting fired.

[00:02:52] Products being thrown out because of all kinds of health and safety issues. Um, I’m sure we all remember the press releases and the bulletins that were [00:03:00] going out back in like 20, 15, 20 16. That was mostly me. Um, unfortunately, and so I, I was like, I love this industry. I love these people. I got to do something different.

[00:03:10] This is not working for me. I, you know, like I want to help them. And as a regulator, you really can’t help them. You’re not allowed to give them advice. You’re not allowed to like, show them the answers, you just state the regulation and they got to figure it out. So, um, I became. And for awhile, it was just going to be me by myself doing something that I loved just to pay bills and, um, make it work.

[00:03:31] And then I got super busy, uh, overnight pretty much. And so I ended up having to hire like a year later, um, and then hired again and hired again and hired again. So now here we are. Um, and we’ve, we are in all kinds of states and doing all kinds of good things. We mainly focus on worker safety. Um, and consumer safety.

[00:03:52] So we really deal with like FDA and OSHA. The most, we specialize in GMP certification, ISO 9,001. I [00:04:00] said 22,000 certification, organic certification and gap and GAC P, which is like good agricultural practices and the cultivations now, um, for a long time, those certifications weren’t even granted to people in the cannabis industry.

[00:04:14] And that now, thankfully is not the case. We work with a lot of accredited certifying bodies. How companies. It’s awesome. I love what

[00:04:21]Bryan: I do. So I’m glad you shared all that and I’m looking forward to diving some of those specifics, but before we do that, I want to kind of stay in the, in the past. Right. Was there any hesitation to kind of come into the cannabis industry and even more so when you first got started, Has the conversation shifted from when you first got in with some of the operators and how their, their feelings are you towards your, you know, your recommendations and the certifications and the needs of that to where we are now, where it’s kind of a little more, I guess, above board and an expected of what the, what is the future.

[00:04:50]Kim: Yeah. So, uh, yeah, I was terrified to get into the industry. I, in fact real, oh my gosh. Well, first of all, my family is very conservative. They just about fell out of their [00:05:00] chairs. When I told them I was going to start a cannabis company. Um, and you know, I had support, but it was very like, well, we’ll see how that goes.

[00:05:07] Um, and so I joined, I did it anyway and was just like, you know, you gotta, you only live once. Let’s do it. And, um, I remember going to my first cannabis happy hour. As a non regulator. And that was very eyeopening. Uh, people hated me. People called me the weed Wacker to my face, uh, and were like, what is she doing here?

[00:05:27] And it took them a little while, even like my first audit that I did, they still thought I was a regulator when I came in and they like, wouldn’t let me in. And I’m like, no, no, no, your boss is paying me to be here. Like I swear, call him, you know, uh, it took a little while for people to come around and realize that I wasn’t.

[00:05:44] You know, and that I wasn’t gonna do anything to them that would, you know, they weren’t going to want, uh, and that I was going to be around and actually helps them and actually work through problems with them. And once that kind of dawned on people, then it became an, a completely different conversation.

[00:05:58] Um, and yes, [00:06:00] from the beginning of. Uh, to now that conversation has changed a lot, but it kind of depends on what state I’m in. Um, different states are at different points, right? Like in Oregon and Colorado people know who I am. They, they, they know that they need me in a way, like, they’re like, no, That’s important.

[00:06:19] We should have her come in and do an audit or, you know, let’s go ahead. This we’re going for this goal, but in states like Oklahoma, or, you know, like Virginia, like the states that don’t, they’re brand new, so they don’t really know what they need right now. They’re just trying to get licensing done and make sure that they have, you know, the basic SOP instead of looking at that like higher level.

[00:06:40] Cause obviously we help with state regulatory compliance as well, but that’s just the easiest. Regulations we work with, right. So it’s like, okay, we’ll get you sound on your state regulations. And then what do you want to do? You know, what do you, where do you see your company in five to 10 years? You know, what type of risk mitigation do you want to put in place?

[00:06:58] So you’re not going through [00:07:00] recalls and bulletins and having your note, your name slandered and. Crazy stuff. Um, and it happens, it happens to everybody. I mean, even huge companies we just had, I, you know, purely, I think was one that just went through a whole thing and I mean, there’s just, it happens to everybody.

[00:07:15] So being prepared is really what we’re trying to do is like, Hey, let’s be proactive instead of reactive so that when bad things happen, because it’s going to happen, stuff happens. Um, we just need to know how to handle it. If that means. It

[00:07:30]Kellan: does. Um, and I want to take the conversation towards CGMP because I think it’s probably the most popular buzz word thrown around the industry these days.

[00:07:37] Right. Um, everyone talks about the acronym. I don’t think the majority of people really understand what it means, but CGMP is like an existing situation, right? Like our food. It’s manufactured under CGMP. Our medicine has manufactured under CGMP, but they’re, they’re different. Right. And so could you kind of expand on like the differences within the CGMP world and which [00:08:00] one cannabis companies kind of need to address and kind of take

[00:08:03]Kim: on?

[00:08:04] Yeah. So the term CGMP means current good manufacturing practices practice. So if you have GMPs in your facility, that could mean that you wash your hands regularly, like, like honestly, Uh, GMP is just like one thing in like a many, many thing process. But the difference is, is so there’s FDA GMPs, right?

[00:08:27] Those are the FDA regulations because the FDA isn’t involved in our industry, including the CBD side, because they haven’t put out regulations yet. Um, They, you know, and they’re telling us we’re not supplements that we’re not food ingredients. So what do we fall under? That’s a really great question. The next best thing to being regulated by the FDA or regulated by your local health department or whatever, following those sea GMPs, um, is to be GMP certified.

[00:08:53] And so when people kind of throw it around, they’re like, oh, we’re GMP, you know, uh, compliance. That literally [00:09:00] means nothing. Uh, they’re like, there’s no test standard for that. There’s no, like, usually when people walk into a facility and they look around and it looks clean, they think, oh, it’s clean. No, no, no.

[00:09:11] Like as CGMP compliance is like very, very detailed oriented. You document everything. You have to have regular trainings and all this crazy stuff. Um, and, but being G GMP certified from an accredited certifying body That’s a whole other level. That means you can prove it. Right. I have a certificate. They come in every year and audit me.

[00:09:34] This is me proving to you that I have a safe product. And that is really what my clients want because they can sell their products for more. They can sell their company for more eventually. And the risk mitigation, right? So they don’t go through recalls. They don’t go on bulletins. They’re not shamed in the media for poisoning people.

[00:09:52] Um, and that’s a good thing, right? That risk mitigation. Also all of our investors that we work for, we do a lot of compliance, due diligence for [00:10:00] investors and financial firms. They won’t even give you anything. If you don’t have GMP certification, like it’s starting to become that way. And that’s the exact same.

[00:10:10] As wholesale food manufacturing is like anything that you buy in whole foods or, or, you know, like king Soopers or anywhere. They they’re all GMP certified. It’s kind of an industry born standard that they’re like, okay, you have to get a certification from an accredited certifying body, or you’re just not going to have a business cause nobody will buy your stuff from you.

[00:10:30] And that is just the way that wholesale food right. Is regulated kind of within its own self. And that is the trend that I’m seeing. And then you have. Like Florida, who you have to have GMP certification from a third party in order to even have a license in the THC industry. So that is another trend that we are seeing in a lot of states.

[00:10:49] And I think that that’s going to be the case, um, in Virginia, I think that’s going to be the case in New York because in New York, the CBD industry, if you’re a CBD manufacturing company making [00:11:00] edibles or whatever, um, you have to have GMP as well. So it’s not something that. Crazy, but it takes a lot of time.

[00:11:08] It’s not something that happens overnight and it takes a lot of effort, ongoing effort for years and years to like keep it. So I think people are a little shocked when they realize that unfortunately,

[00:11:21]Bryan: whoa,

[00:11:21] what percentage of operators are certified and what percentage are compliant?

[00:11:27]Kim: Zero, are compliant even if they say they are, I can’t even tell you how many times.

[00:11:31] They’ll pay for a gap analysis to GMP and they go, oh, we’re compliant with it. We just want to like make sure before we call the certifying body every single time they have at least like four months left of work, to be able to be certified, it is not. easy And it’s really, really hard to do in house. Um, unless you’re hiring someone who like used to work for the FDA or something like that, and those people are very expensive.

[00:11:57] So I, you know, I don’t recommend it, [00:12:00] uh, but you know, if you can go for it, um, yeah, it, it just takes a lot of time in house, a lot of effort. And a lot of times reading the regulations, just like every set of regulations. It’s total jargon, right? If you’re not a professor, a certified professional of food safety, you don’t know what half the words in the document even mean.

[00:12:19] Um, and it’s, it’s very confusing on purpose, I think. Um, unfortunately, but it’s really hard for people to understand and, and get through it without at least a little bit of.

[00:12:29]Bryan: I think that’s really well said, cause we’ve looked through it a little bit. And one of the points we were looking at, neither of us were sure of exactly what it was asking.

[00:12:36] So at the end of it, like, we weren’t even sure where to look. And I think like what you just shared is so important too, because if you put any announced person on that, not only are they going to face probably other internal challenges right. Of like their normal day job and kind of dealing with all those other conflicts, they’re not sure how to kind of navigate some of those unknown.

[00:12:54] To come back to you. Can, what is the number one reason someone would fail or what’s the biggest missing [00:13:00] piece you see in the industry today for failing those compliance or.

[00:13:04]Kim: Oh man. Uh, there’s a lot, there’s, there’s literally so many ways, um, that you won’t pass. Um, but the, the number one ways, and this is at least with the system that my companies put in place, um, and we’ve been doing it for a long time, so it’s literally a very systematic, we break it down like month to month.

[00:13:24] It’s really great. It works really well. Number one reason is physical facility issues. So. People will have all, maybe have all the documentation and all the training and all the logs and all the calibrations and metal detection and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But let’s say they don’t have enough hand sinks in their facility or their floor has like chips in it or their ceiling.

[00:13:47] It has like a. Tiles, which is not allowed. Um, there’s a lot of issues with the physical facility that need to be identified right away. In fact, that’s our first step in our entire process is to [00:14:00] do a gap analysis, see the facility itself and find those things that need to be fixed right away, because those are your most expensive.

[00:14:07] If you have to redo plumbing in your facility, you need to know that like immediately. So you can get a budget together and a timeline for that because that’s the most expensive. If we get to the end of the process and then we have to go back and do the floor or the plumbing or something like that, it’s going to cost them an arm and a leg and really push that out.

[00:14:26] Um, and so we try to do that right upfront. Um, the second thing is not having proper documentation. This happens a lot. People will buy. I can’t even tell you how many times we will start working with a client and they’ve bought, they spent 50 grand. On SLPs online that are GMP compliant and they have this packet and they just give it to us and they say, okay, review this.

[00:14:51] And it’s awful. Right? It’s they have, none of the processes are unique to their facility. None of the trainings are [00:15:00] legitimate for what they’re doing in their facility. I mean, it’s just kind of amazing that people are still buying online templates. Like just don’t do it. Just don’t do it. Um, and it, you know, and our company, we write all of that.

[00:15:14] We, our templates go to you if you’re a client, obviously, and we write them for you specific to your facility, if there is anything that’s happening in your SOP, that is not happening in your facility, that is a violation. And that can be a really huge violation. If you’re talking about. Uh, asset plan or, you know, something that can really affect public health.

[00:15:35] So those are really like the two things and then training. We there’s a lot of training issue. People, people think that they’re doing training and then they’re not doing enough for, it’s not, you know, sinking in, um, because that training is good. Cause they interview the auditor, interviews each person in the facility during the.

[00:15:54] So it’s not just one person answering questions and I think they’re not ready for that. So if you’re not training your entire [00:16:00] staff, then if they answer something wrong incorrectly, um, then that’s a violation as well. Um, and it is a point system. So if you lose too many points, you don’t get that certification.

[00:16:12] Um, and you have to pay them again for another audit. So if you fail that first one, it’s, you know, it’s a lot of money. Cause sometimes they’re like $20,000, depending on which accredited certifying body you use. There are some that are much less than that, but it’s, uh, yeah, it can be very costly if you screw it up.

[00:16:29] So, you know, I hope that was a good answer. Long

[00:16:35]Bryan: answer. Yeah. I can only imagine you’ve probably saw some SLPs and you’re like, that’s actually not your company’s name. I can’t imagine that this is your SOP. And they’re like, what are you talking about? And you’re like, that’s not the name of your facility and boom right away.

[00:16:47] Probably a big red flag. So is it mandatory though, for a lot of people in the space, like, what you’re saying now is like there’s costs for, let’s say for your team to come in and help. And then additionally, you’re pointing out problems. Let’s say with the plumbing, with the flooring, with the. [00:17:00] Those are additional costs.

[00:17:02] So from a mandatory standpoint, is this something that operators need to do now or something they should be doing now?

[00:17:08]Kim: So in most states it’s not required yet. Right? So no, this is definitely above and beyond thing. Um, but what we’ve learned from our clients, uh, you know, just being in it for so long, it was eventually everybody’s going to need to be at the standard and it’s starting to spread, especially with federal legalization on the horizon.

[00:17:28] Um, I think the way that the FDA might spin this is the way the other states are spinning this. It takes a whole lot of work off of their plate. If they just require this across the board to go through a third party. Um, that’s exactly what Florida was doing. They were like, are we don’t have the bandwidth to regulate all of these new companies.

[00:17:51] Okay. A lot of companies, right? They just, I mean, look at Oklahoma 14,000 companies overnight that the health department now has to go regulate. [00:18:00] Absolutely not. It’s not going to happen. Um, and that’s just the way it is. Right. They don’t have enough people. They don’t have anybody trained in cannabis. So requiring just like, Hey, you have to have this certification.

[00:18:10] And that’s, it. That’s really easy for them. Um, and that could be the way that they’re going to go. And not only that, if you’re GMP certified, let’s say the FDA does. Start regulating the way that they’re regulating everybody else. If you’re GMP certified, you will pass an FDA audit a hundred percent like without a doubt.

[00:18:27] And in fact, it’s a little more above and beyond then the FDA. Regulations and they’re based on those regulations. So it’s kind of a, one of those, Hey, helping my clients sleep better at night. If you have this, you’re not going to have to worry about it. You’re not going to go through recalls. I mean, if you do, you figure it out really quick, uh, right.

[00:18:45] You catch it usually before it goes out the door is the goal. Um, if something goes wrong because of GMP. Uh, and yeah, like I said, it’s, it’s a huge risk mitigator, you know, you know, your products safe, you know, That, uh, [00:19:00] also, you know, companies that buy other companies are always looking for that kind of thing.

[00:19:04] Investors, if you’re looking for investors, if you have a letter from a company like mine that says, Hey, you’re working with us for this goal, investors go, oh, oh really? You know, like awesome. Maybe I should, you know, and it just really puts you above and beyond. Also as a consumer myself, I look for that GMP certification that only ride products from those companies, because I know that they’re the safest ones on the market and because of the spotty regulatory oversight, when it comes to health and safety throughout the entire United States right now, you know, I can’t really trust everything, unfortunately.

[00:19:39] So.

[00:19:41]Kellan: Yeah, I, I completely agree. So say, we’re say I’m a new company and I’m looking to start the company and get a CGMP certification from the get go and like design facility with that in mind. How long would I kind of expect the process to take from. Um, starting it to [00:20:00] actually getting the piece of paper I can frame and put on my wall.

[00:20:02]Kim: Yeah. So, I mean, it really depends on their budget. So we work on retainer. So we have companies that have been with us for like two years and they’ve been working at it like five hours a month, you know, they just, you know, they don’t have a deadline. It’s not a big deal. They want to get it, but they just don’t have the budget to just like, get it done.

[00:20:19] Um, and that happens. And then we have other clients that are like, we want it in four months and we’re like, okay. How much money you got because that’s going to be expensive. Right. Um, and then they have like a 40 hour a month contract and then they’re done in four months. So it really just kind of depends.

[00:20:34] Um, 90% of our clients who do GMP particularly, or specifically are also sometimes going for ISO 9,001 as well, which will add a little bit of time, but not much, maybe like 20 hours between the two of them. Are there quite a bit. Yeah. If you have, like I said, if you get GMP ISO 9,001, like stacks right on top of it, and it’s just like 25 more hours, I think, to, to add that.

[00:20:59] So a lot of people are [00:21:00] like, yeah, let’s just do it. Um, and if you have a certifying body that does both, it’s one on. And it cuts, it costs you less money. You don’t have to pay for two separate audits. So anyways, yeah, it’s exciting. But anyway, I’m like, I get excited about it.

[00:21:19] such a nerd. Um, but yeah, so it’s really depends on the client and what their needs are. Right. Um, but most of our clients are at 20 hours a month because then we’re getting through like 1, 2, 3 SLPs every single month. We’re doing a training every single month via zoom for their entire staff. Um, and we just kind of get through it.

[00:21:39] And usually that’ll take about six to eight months depending on what the company has in place, because some companies are starting from complete scratch, where they have a facility that they’re maybe building out right now. We need to do a floor plan review to make sure they have everything that they need to be GMP certified.

[00:21:56] So we save a lot of people money that way during, you know, talking to their [00:22:00] architect, right. All of that. Um, and that’s usually some of our, like very early on clients. That’s what they’re doing is building a facility or retrofitting one that exists. And then from there we would start working on SLPs and training.

[00:22:15] Um, a lot of the SLPs can be kind of general if as long as you know, what’s happening in your facility, we can get those SLPs done. So, um, it, you know, we can start as early as. Hey, I don’t even have a facility yet to, Hey, I’ve been functioning for 10 years and I have no idea what’s going on and I want GMP certification and that happens.

[00:22:34] And you know, with us, the good thing is we’re really flexible. Um, and we can kind of, you know, take roll with the punches. We’ve had clients where, you know, we’re working on something and they call us and they go, ah, OSHA just showed up. Will you get here? Will you help us out with. You know, whatever. And so we kind of can do whatever needs to be done to help our client at that time, and then go back to our regular, okay.

[00:22:58] We’re getting these SLPs [00:23:00] done and we’re putting these in place. So it’s pretty, pretty cool. Pretty exciting. Um, I wake up and never know what my day is going to look like is really what it comes down to.

[00:23:10]Bryan: Are there dual responsibilities, for example, your team’s responsible for some of the training and some of the advice, but internally the operators also are responsible for kind of carrying out their needs.

[00:23:19] Right. And executing on that. So that’s a critical piece of the right. It’s a partnership in the effort towards the surface.

[00:23:25]Kim: Yeah. So we do most of the heavy lifting, right? They don’t have to sit in front of a computer screen and type out hours and hours of SOP. We do that for them. Um, and we’re used to that kind of workload and that kind of thing.

[00:23:38] But when it comes to implementation, obviously the trainings, we started doing trainings every month, we require it. We will not do it without having those trainings because we’ve learned that the implementation part is very difficult without. Education basis. And so when everybody in the, in the company, you know, it’s a cultural change, right.

[00:23:56] It’s changing from that old mentality of this is the way we’ve [00:24:00] always done it to, okay. No, we’re improving what we’re doing and we’re going to take pride in what we’re making. And, and it’s really interesting because. Um, at first we get a little, like fight back sometimes from some employees, but by the end of it, they’re like completely bought in.

[00:24:14] Um, cause we explain the why behind, you know, that’s what regulations don’t do. They don’t, you know, we have microbiology backgrounds and stuff. We can tell them why, like what kind of bacteria is growing in this situation and what it’ll do to you. And when you know, like we can break it down and then. Oh, gosh.

[00:24:32] Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I’ll make sure to sanitize every time, you know, and it’s not like that.

[00:24:38]Bryan: Totally. You didn’t say that.

[00:24:41]Kim: So it’s, it’s good. And you know, and we love doing it, but the implementation. Yes. I mean, obviously we take most of the work, uh, off of their plate. That’s our job. We want to make life easier for them.

[00:24:52] That’s why we’re there. Um, but there is a level we have to have. Um, higher up buy-in if the owner doesn’t give a [00:25:00] shit and doesn’t care, excuse my language. Uh, then neither will any of the other employees and they’re going to struggle really hard to get implementation and to actually get the certification.

[00:25:09] And we’ve definitely entered into some of those contracts where we’re like, okay, we need your buy-in. We need you to be on board because if you’re not, we can’t be working with you because we don’t feel like. Doing any good and we’re wasting our time. Right. You know, we want to make sure, so all of our clients that we’ve gotten certification store that have worked with us for years, you know, they kind of become family.

[00:25:30] All of our clients are just absolutely above and beyond and just like the best in the industry for sure.

[00:25:37]Bryan: Yeah. And I’m sure some of those timeframes where it’s eight months kind of get kicked out to 12 and 13 months when you’re not getting buy-in. When the other side is not kind of contributing their into the deal.

[00:25:45] So let’s do a little scenario. For example, we have a small operator, they can’t afford the certification process now because they just can’t prioritize it. And then all of a sudden, out of nowhere, federal legalization happens. What does the small operator [00:26:00] do? Are they unable to produce product? Are they in a complete standstill until they get their paperwork?

[00:26:04] How,

[00:26:04]Kim: how would you. Well, they should be registering with the FDA already. Um, or at least the first thing that they should do, because once they’re registered with the FDA and they have proper licensing through their local and state health authorities, they should be okay to operate. Um, depending on the state, there might be states that maybe hate cannabis and aren’t going to allow it at all.

[00:26:26] But in states that you’re already functioning, you should be okay. Um, I mean, we all know those states anyway. I digress, but you know, they should be okay. But registering with the FDA, you have to be registered with them, just like every other wholesale food. Every, every restaurant everybody has to do that.

[00:26:43] Um, and yeah, you might have a visit. Um, I would, I mean, unfortunately if you don’t have the budget, even for just an audit, cause sometimes just having that audit, uh, and you can do an FDA audit, right? We, we do that. You can just go in, do the [00:27:00] FDA audit and then you have a report. That’s almost like a checklist of things that you need to get done.

[00:27:04] Also, when the regulator comes in, you can show them. And say, Hey, I had this like audit, we’re trying really hard to get into compliance sometimes that will like, make them feel better about the situation. And maybe not find you quite as much if you are out of compliance. Um, you know, it’s, it’s hard because unfortunately, Anything like this cost money, the GMP certification costs money.

[00:27:28] Um, we try to keep it as minimal as possible and we try to save our CA our clients. Like we went completely virtual because our clients were paying a lot of money for us traveling back and forth all the time, you know? So we gave that option and it’s helped a lot of our clients be able to afford us. You know, we try to do little things, but in the long run, it is hard.

[00:27:45] If you’re a small operator, though, it’s a little easier. Read the regulations, you know? Um, and if you, you know, if you have a 400 person company and you’re trying to do it on your own good luck, but if it’s a five person company, you might actually have a chance, you [00:28:00] know, um, and you can always call your local health department and ask them questions.

[00:28:04] They will answer your questions. Um, I used to all the time when I worked for Denver, when you can actually call your F the FTA. As well, um, they won’t answer your questions right now because they don’t have answers. Um, but when it does become federally legal and I guarantee that there will be a staff that will be taking questions from the industry, because there’s going to be, it won’t only be you, there’s going to be a lot of people that are going to be confused by the regulations and not really know what to do and want to be doing the right thing because you know, every, everybody I know wants to do the right thing, it’s just a matter of knowing how.

[00:28:39] I can imagine

[00:28:40] that,

[00:28:41]Bryan: that they will be a very loud day for you, Kim, when

[00:28:44]Kim: I was scared for that day, I’m telling you this, just turn the phone

[00:28:47]Kellan: off. Yup. How much more complicated is, is it if they’re a small company that’s vertically integrated because

[00:28:54]Bryan: you mentioned gap,

[00:28:56]Kellan: which is what good agricultural practices, right?

[00:28:59] So are they [00:29:00] now, now they’re fighting like, uh, on multiple fronts, if you will, right. To get these certifications.

[00:29:04]Kim: Yeah. Yeah. So a lot of our clients that have gap or GCP, it depends on which certifying body, what they call it. Um, it, you know, they get that and it’s the same kind of thing. It’s a risk mitigation.

[00:29:17] It talks about how to properly do pesticides, how to. Stop, um, cross-contamination issues in a grow. We all know that that’s an issue, right? Walking through your clone room. After being in the powdery mildew room is never a good thing. Um, and, but it happens all the time because you know, facilities are built weird sometimes.

[00:29:36] And. And so, you know, people who want to be vertically vertically integrated, if they want GMP, they almost always want JCP as well. Um, just because it’s stopping contamination issues and food safety issues from the literally the beginning of the process to the end of the process until products out your door.

[00:29:53] Um, and it has a great track and trace, right? So if something does go wrong, you’ll be able to identify it because it’s within your own [00:30:00] facility, the ones that become complicates. Is I bought this flower from somebody else and I can’t, I don’t have eyes on their facility and then it comes to me and I don’t realize there’s an issue with it.

[00:30:11] And then I may concentrate and it has like, you know, uh, a dangerous pesticide in it. And then I’m blaming them. My name is on the recall because I’m the one that has the label on it that went out the door. And so that’s when things become more complicated. So I kind of love the vertically integrated thing.

[00:30:28] I mean, I don’t think it should be like required. People should be able to do and run their business. They want, but if I had a business, I would, I’d probably love that vertical integrated because you control every step of the process. So, um, but I will say that GCP is not one of those things that’s usually required.

[00:30:46] It is. Implemented in a whole lot of agriculture, you know, practices in all kinds of industries. Um, and sometimes if they’re going to buy like their company’s big conglomerates and stuff, if they’re going to buy your corn, you have to have it just because [00:31:00] they require it. If they’re going to buy your corn from you or whatever it may be, and that might eventually happen for the industry.

[00:31:06] Um, but as long as you’re compliant with your local agriculture, Like department, um, and those regulations right now, we haven’t run into a whole lot of issues with the gross, except for pesticide use that isn’t allowed. And I mean, obviously the obvious stuff, right? Yeah.

[00:31:23]Kellan: So in other, in other industries, isn’t it like the vendors have to be CGMP certified as well, too.

[00:31:28] So it’s like a giant network that everyone has these like certified certificate. So they can like play nicely together. Right. That situation you just mentioned where you go acquire some flowers.

[00:31:40]Kim: So if you’re a company that requires everybody to have CGMP or gap or whatever, then yes. But technically it’s not required. So if, yeah, so if I’m buying concentrate or like distill it, like let’s say I’m buying distance. To put into my gummies. They don’t [00:32:00] have to be CGMP certified unless I want them to be, it does.

[00:32:04]Kellan: And like the regular food industry say I was making like cupcakes and I was buying sugar. Does that sugar need to come from a CGMP? So yeah, the real

[00:32:13]Kim: world, I guess. Yes. That’s an industry decided thing. Oh, it’s not a regulated. It’s not required. Okay. Yeah, I know. It’s super weird. But the entire wholesale food industry, they don’t every single person that owns a company.

[00:32:32] They’re just, as I won’t buy, if you don’t have GMP,

[00:32:34]Kellan: they just all got together. And just kind of, it’s like a unwritten rule. It

[00:32:38]Kim: is, it’s a total unwritten rule, but everybody knows it and everybody follows it. Cares, you know, they’re like, yeah, I get it. Cause it is such a risk mitigator. And when you do screw something up and make somebody sick and it’s just going to get more, more and more loud.

[00:32:53] Right. Right. Now, if somebody gets sick in Colorado, you only hear about it in Colorado, if you know, [00:33:00] but once it’s federally legalized, that’s going to be a whole different story. And there are so many people out there with a biased against our industry. They’re going to want to make it loud. And that’s why a lot of health departments are pretty good about.

[00:33:13] Okay, this happened and this was an outbreak. We’re not gonna tell anybody, we’re just, here’s your fine, or this is how we’re going to fix it. We did a recall in your little area that you were selling or, you know, whatever it was and trying not to make it a black eye on the entire industry, but it does happen all the time.

[00:33:30] Um, and when it becomes federally legal, that’s going to be a lot louder. Um, and I think that the people who are against our industry very strongly in some cases are going to be the ones that are shouting. From the rooftop, when things go wrong and trying to make our industry look bad, which is why I’m really commend the people that are getting these kinds of certifications.

[00:33:53] Um, because they’re doing a huge service to the entire industry, right? They’re, they’re preventing things from happening that could [00:34:00] potentially make us all look very, very bad. And it’s, you know, it’s like the story of the woman in UK who ate a THC gummy and died. You know that wasn’t the THC that killed her.

[00:34:11] Let’s just be real. Like it was something in the process of that gummy or, you know, a solvent that that’s a completely illegal market. So it was definitely, you know, in an illegitimate, you know, process. And so it’s just. You know, it’s crazy, but that makes everybody here ago. Oh, I don’t know if these THC companies are safe and it’s like, oh my gosh, no, that’s completely different.

[00:34:36] So anytime we can prevent anything bad from happening like that, the, it serves the industry as a whole. And so that’s why I always commend people. And I shout from the rooftops, like when our clients get a certification, We obviously we’re under very strict into yeas, so we don’t do it unless we have their permission, but we try to shout from the rooftop that they’ve gotten it done.

[00:34:57] We try to get them in articles. We posted all over our [00:35:00] social media pages because they should be recognized for that amazing accomplishment. Cause it is very hard to get it is costly. Um, and they should be celebrated for going out of their way when they don’t even have to, to protect the industry as well.

[00:35:14]Bryan: I think that’s so perfectly said, right? And we’ve seen it with the vape gate, all the challenges that come with the stigmas and the moment there is a miss up, even if it is legacy, legacy enabled. People just freak out. And what happens is you get that stuff, even if it’s overseas, people start to question whether or not this industry has legitimacy, where things are done the right way.

[00:35:34] And the story that came to mind. I know, I don’t think it’s kind of accurate is like the lady and McDonald’s who got like the coffee sport on her. And she sued McDonald’s like sh I mean, lady first off it’s coffee, like what did you think it was it wasn’t ice coffee. It was hot coffee. Um, yeah, like, come on.

[00:35:49] Like no one thought, Hey, maybe McDonald’s is killing people because their food products are bad. Right. Like nobody made those associations. So like maybe we should have more of like a fair thought on it and that, and that’s just [00:36:00] kind of came to mind on that. And it’s, it’s definitely ridiculous, but you’re right.

[00:36:02] Like, those people should be commended for what they’re doing because they are helping the industry by investing in the future of the process. Continuing on that path, EOG, MP to common word we’ve heard around recently. Is it something that’s comparable to CGMP? Can you kind of share a little bit about the two of them?

[00:36:19]Kim: So yeah, this is a huge confusion for a lot of people. I have people would reach out and say, can you get me EU GMP? And I’m like, well, yeah, but why would you want that? Um, EU GMP GMP is for. Um, and it’s pharmaceutical only. So our equivalent of GMP in the United States, which literally it’s the same. It’s exactly the same, um, is the two 11, um, CFR.

[00:36:48] For GMP, which is pharmaceutical. So you can get that in the United States. If you get EU GMP, um, good luck getting your products through customs, uh, or even into another state, because that is like a huge red flag, [00:37:00] because that usually means it’s coming from the EU over. Um, and obviously that would be very illegal if it was a THC product.

[00:37:07] So, um, yes, we do help our clients with E uh, GMP. Two 11 CFR two 11, which is pharmaceutical grade. It is not necessary though at all. Um, I will just preface that, like we do what our clients ask us to do and we will help them with that. It is a huge expense, like, I mean, not. Not just like, oh, it’s like $50,000 and then 5,000, you know, no, it’s like a million bucks and it is because you have to have clean rooms.

[00:37:35] You have to, I mean, the, the entire facility has to be rebuilt essentially. Um, and it it’s very cool. Yes. Uh, you know, not that many people fact, I don’t know anybody that can actually say that they have that two 11 GMP that I know of. Um, but you really, that just makes it so you can use sell it to pharmaceutical companies.

[00:37:55] There aren’t that many pharmaceutical companies, there’s only one, um, that will [00:38:00] buy CBD or THC, and they’ve already got their suppliers. Like they’re there, it doesn’t open up any other doors that isn’t what you need to sell internationally. Um, you can sell into the EU, which is use. So it’s it kind of, it just like doesn’t make sense, but it is this like industry buzzword that everybody can, you do eat you GMP.

[00:38:23] We can, but let me tell you why you shouldn’t, because it actually limits you into who you can sell to and where you can sell. Um, whereas if you just get regular, regular GMP and then maybe ISO 22,000, which is like GMP on crack. That’s what you need to sell internationally. So for most wholesale food manufacturers, if they’re selling into Germany or Spain or whatever, they have ISO 22,000, um, which is similar to GMP, it’s just a higher level GMP with more documentation, more training.

[00:38:56] Um, it’s. Higher level. [00:39:00] Um, and, and that is actually where like the Canadian government is going is requiring that, which is fricking genius, uh, because their country, as you know, uh, is completely federally illegal. And if every single company on in Canada. Has to have those are at those standards that you can sell internet nationally.

[00:39:21] That means when the global market opens up, Canada is going to crush all of us because every single company in Canada will be able to sell international. Which is one of the reasons why I really, really want federal legalization here because we can start setting those standards and doing the same kind of thing and actually make it, you know, we’ll see, it’ll

[00:39:41]Bryan: be okay.

[00:39:42] We had a Canadian guy on and he shared that pretty, pretty loudly that they’re setting up to crush and that if the us doesn’t get their act together, they might not be involved in some of these conversations. And as a world leader, It might be kind of embarrassing to not be sitting at the table, having these types of discussions.

[00:39:59] So [00:40:00] I’m glad you shared light on that and brought that again, because I don’t think that can be heard loudly enough.

[00:40:05]Kim: Seriously. Yeah. It’s sad. We’re going to be left behind. And we were one of the, we were the first country to like legalize it, like, I’m like, what is happening in like one state, you know, um, or two states or, you know, and now it’s just like we’re being left behind because yeah, we’re out of these conversations.

[00:40:21] Cause we’re not taking that public. Aspect and like making it so that we can work in a global market. Eventually. I don’t know. This is literally like something I get a little fired up about.

[00:40:33]Kellan: Mexico are going to trade with each other and they’re just going to take it on a boat across, around the yard.

[00:40:38] What is going on here? Exactly

[00:40:40]Bryan: what he said. And we were like,

[00:40:42]Kim: no bad, frustrating. Very, yeah, and we want to be involved. I want all of my clients to be able to live that American dream cannabis style. Like I want them to be part of that global economy. I want them to be the big hitters. I want them to be the Coca-Cola and the Frito lay and the, [00:41:00] you know, I want them to be.

[00:41:01] The, you know, the companies that I started with when they were five people, I want them to be the ones that blow up, not other people in other countries. And certainly not, you know, just big conglomerates that are, once it opens up, you know, they’re going to come in and buy stuff up, you know, I want. Be a lot easier for the companies that we’ve actually helped to stay in there and make some money and have a good life.

[00:41:25] You know?

[00:41:26]Bryan: Um, when you hear it talked about being locked inside the United States, it really feels differently. Right? When you look at the globe, you see there’s always opportunities, but when he used the word locked inside the United States, it was just like, oh, that doesn’t feel good. Just to hear the way he’s phrasing.

[00:41:40]Kim: Well, and especially if we are allowed to buy from other countries, because then what happens, you know, cause then, then are, you know, companies in the United States, they’re competing, they’re competing with a globe, right. Of people, not just the people in the United States. So, you know, we need to expand and we need to make this [00:42:00] happen sooner than later, or else we are certainly going to be left behind.

[00:42:03] And I would hate to see that happen.

[00:42:05]Bryan: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. What is one idea or fact about. CGMP process that would surprise cannabis opera.

[00:42:14]Kim: Um, I feel like a lot of it surprises cannabis operators. Um, maybe, maybe just the amount of time that it takes and how much work it actually is and how specific the verbiage has to be.

[00:42:28] So we actually help them decide which accredited certifying body they want. And they are usually shocked to know that each one of them is different. So they require different things. Um, they require different language in their SLPs and it has to be very specifically written to that standard that they are wanting.

[00:42:48] So. When, when you do something like buy templates and just kind of fill them out and throw it, Hey, this is our SOP. Most usually they fail because they aren’t, you know, thinking [00:43:00] about that language and those very specific things that, that accredited certifier wants. Whereas, you know, other certifiers might want something completely different.

[00:43:09] It just kind of depends. And the good thing about companies like ours is we’ve already done all that research and we know them they’re on speed dial. You know, we can call them when we have a question. Um, and make sure that everything is tweaked to the exact way, the way that that auditor wants to see it.

[00:43:24] Um, and sometimes that’s the deciding factor right there.

[00:43:28]Bryan: Since you’ve been in the cannabinoid industry, what has been the biggest misconception

[00:43:34]Kim: like from outside people?

[00:43:38]Bryan: Anything that was the first.

[00:43:40]Kim: Oh, lazy stoner. Uh, that’s like a hundred percent, um, you know, things have changed so, so much. I mean, now it’s like million, you know, billionaires in Olympic gold medalist use pot, you know, it’s very different than the old school, you know, Cheech and Chong days, or like, And, you know, tie dye, just sitting [00:44:00] around smoking.

[00:44:00] Um, there are so many people in this industry, first of all, also there’s a lot of people in this industry that don’t consume cannabis, which is like, I’m like, oh, okay. You know, uh, very different, but it’s true. I mean, there’s a lot of people that don’t, there’s a lot of people that consume cannabis and don’t drink in this industry.

[00:44:17] Uh, I remember I threw my first LA Palooza, which we’ve been doing for years. It’s like a little trade show that we throw every year in Denver. And, uh, my event planner, not in cannabis, she buys all this booze like all, and I’m like, man, that’s a lie. And she’s like, no, there’s 500 people coming. Yeah. And she’s used to like law firm parties and shit.

[00:44:37] No, we didn’t even go through half of it because everybody was smoking. Nobody was drinking, you know, and she was like, man, this is like the most mellow party. And I’m like, yeah, it’s the cannabis industry, you know, like it’s very different. Their mindset is very different about. Like consumption and being in headbutted and you know, those kinds of things.

[00:44:56] And there are a lot more open-minded about that kind of thing. [00:45:00] Um, yeah, I think the lazy stoner thing, I think that people, when they find out that I use cannabis, they’re like shocked. Cause they see me as like somebody who gets shit done and I’m like, yeah, almost every person that smokes cannabis gets shit done.

[00:45:12] Guess what? You know? And they just don’t realize it because they haven’t ever met that person. Um, and I think that’s, those stigmas are starting to clear up, thankfully. Uh, I hope, I mean, you know, when yeah, billionaires and Olympic gold medalists are, you know, admitting that they use cannabis, it’s a little shocking because those are like the people that you think.

[00:45:32] You know, would never, um, and I think the stigmas are finally starting to go away, which is a really good thing, but there’s still places in this country where yeah. I still get LinkedIn messages calling me a drug dealer. Okay. Sorry. You know, um,

[00:45:49]Bryan: let’s delete. So before we do prediction time, we ask all of our guests, if you could sum up your experience in a main takeaway or lesson learned to pass onto the next [00:46:00] generation, what would it be?

[00:46:02]Kim: Ooh, uh, write legislation with public health in mind from the beginning. Always because, uh, that’s one of the biggest downfalls that we’ve had in the United States is not having that in mind and having all of the, um, local health departments and state health departments not involved in cannabis at all.

[00:46:22] And so therefore, just like I was talking about with Canada, we’re kind of falling behind. So in the future when psilocybin and all of these other things, you know, other cannabinoids Delta eight Delta 10, when we start regulating these things, we need to really keep that in mind. Um, and I think it’s going to cause a lot less hardships for the people in the industry moving forward, because that was definitely something that Colorado and a lot of other states have really messed up on.

[00:46:47] Unfortunately. And of course I’m a public health advocate. So I have to talk about that.

[00:46:52]Bryan: Well, that should be on a bulletin board. I think that’d be really popular, especially here in times square. I like figured out guys, like here’s a message. Yeah. [00:47:00] The number one thing cannabis operators can do today to better position themselves for the future.

[00:47:06] And they can’t be

[00:47:07]Kim: CGMP well that’s okay. Uh, yeah, CGMP is great. I think that, um, structuring their company in a way that, uh, that makes sense. I know that sounds very vague, but I also, you know, I am a business owner and so when I go into businesses and I see how their. Uh, structuring their company and how, you know, w okay.

[00:47:34] Employees being involved in decision-making at a higher level is the deciding factor of whether you’re going to be a company that lasts. We’ll say that because a lot of times in cannabis, there is the person in charge, right? The owner CEO or whatever, and he’s more like a manager and he kind of, or he, or she, I’m not trying to be sexist here.

[00:47:59] It can be either [00:48:00] way. Um, If he doesn’t listen to the employees and, or they don’t listen to the employees and they don’t, um, they’re not responsive to the way that the company is built and they aren’t creating like a really good culture within the company. That’s when we see like major issues, like turnover problems, I mean, the turnover in the industry is just out of, out of control.

[00:48:20] And I think a lot of it has to do with the employees, not feeling like they’re included in the conversation and they’re not appreciated at all because right now everybody wants to work in case. So you can turn and burn employees like, like it’s nobody’s problem, but it costs a lot of money to hire and fire and go through that process.

[00:48:39] So if you treat your employees a little better, you’re one of those companies that’ll stick around. That’s something that I’ve just seen in the industry where people just don’t really understand that. I don’t know if they just don’t have like basic business backgrounds, which most people don’t. I certainly didn’t, um, getting involved, but that is something that I’ve seen across the board.

[00:48:59][00:49:00] Um, treat your employees like human beings and give them a little bit of a voice and hear what they have to say. And you know, that kind of thing. It helps the company run a lot smoother

[00:49:10]Bryan: Kaelin.

[00:49:12]Kellan: Um,

[00:49:15]Bryan: what was the question? The number one thing. Oh, I see. You’re stalling. You want me to repeat it again or repeat it?

[00:49:23] I think cannabis operators can do today to prepare for the future. No who

[00:49:29]Kellan: like, know what, who they are. Right. I think that, that a lot of times too, is like, they got into the industry, they’re here to make money. They like weed. Right. And then they’re like, okay, like now what? I have like a semi a business that’s like kind of standing up by itself.

[00:49:44] Like where do I go next? Right. I think like knowing what you want to build before you get involved, I think is really important because instead of just kind of like throwing all these things together and then kind of, you just have this like giant. Like taped up mess if you will, if you like know that, like, Hey, I [00:50:00] want to be a boutique small operator that makes this much product every, every month.

[00:50:06] It’s a lot easier to then fit into that, that, uh, square or that puzzle piece, if you will. Or you’re like, Hey, I want to be the Coca-Cola. I want to be in every state. I want my product on every single shelf. Like that’s to get to that goal. It’s a completely different roadmap, you know what I mean? And so if you don’t know, like where you want to go, Navigating that path is going to be so challenging.

[00:50:28] And I think that’s where you saw a lot of companies fail early on is they just kind of got some money. They’re excited to be in the industry. Like six months, like 12 months into it kind of that like honeymoon phase wears off. And then it’s like, oh wow. Like I have to show up to work every day and like go through this grind.

[00:50:45] But like, what am I, what’s my why now? Right. So I think that that really is one of the bigger, uh, situations I’ve seen, uh, people get entrepreneurs, at least getting into the space. What are your thoughts,

[00:50:54]Bryan: Brian? I think that’s well said also I’m going to kind of piggyback off that and do scenario planning.

[00:50:59][00:51:00] I think more operators can do more scenario planning for future efforts. So for example, like you were saying today, What happens if I think if leadership would think more like that, then I think their short-term actions will reflect where they want to be in the long-term. Whether that means starting the process with you today, even with it’s a couple hours a month, right?

[00:51:19] Just the. Start the steps forward because what most people can’t do when everything gets forward is they can’t go back in time and change results. And I think that that’s going to be a big problem with the industry right now is a lot of people are very shortsighted with keeping the lights on and driving home sales.

[00:51:34] But by doing additional scenario planning for the future, I think they can kind of align both the short and the longterm, you know, for better futures.

[00:51:43]Kim: Well said. Absolutely.

[00:51:45]Bryan: So Kim, for our listeners who want to get in touch, they want to start the process. Where can they get.

[00:51:51]Kim: Uh, yeah, you can just go to our website, www.la, a L L a Y consulting.com.[00:52:00]

[00:52:00] There’s a whole thing you can fill out and we’ll have somebody reach out to you right away. Um, yeah. Or, you know, we also are on LinkedIn, so if you want to follow us there, we have a lot of stuff. We post videos and talk about, uh, up coming legislation and all that fun stuff. So, um, we’d love to have you as a follower or yeah.

[00:52:18] Feel free to reach out. We’d love to talk. Cool. We’ll link it up

[00:52:21]Bryan: in the show notes. Thanks so much for your time, Kim.

[00:52:24]Kim: Thank you.

Editors’ Note: This is the transcript version of the podcast. Please note that due to time and audio constraints, transcription may not be perfect. We encourage you to listen to the podcast, embedded below if you need any clarification. We hope you enjoy!

This week we are joined by Ashley Reynolds President and Co-Founder Elmore Mountain Therapeutics to discuss

• TED TALKS
• Pioneering change for Women
• Vermont’s Cannabis Market 
• And so much more

Ashley is a dedicated cannabis advocate, a proud Vermonter, & the CEO of EMT

Ashley and her husband Colin established EMT in May of 2017 after Ashley’s personal struggle with postpartum anxiety. Finding relief through the use of CBD, Ashley saw a need for cannabis advocation to all. By providing science-backed education and high-quality, lab-tested CBD products, Ashley and the EMT Team have created a loyal following of canna experts.

Ashley Reynolds, CEO

Tedtalk:  Cannabis a future without Stigma

This show is presented to by 8th Revolution:

New Homepage

At Eighth Revolution (8th Rev) we provide services from capital to cannabinoid and everything in between in regard to the hemp & cannabis industry. Our forward-thinking team can diagnose, analyze & optimize every detailed nuance of your company to keep your business safe, smart, and profitable. Our flexibility and experience combined with ongoing research create unique insights into how to best grow your market share. Contact us directly at [email protected]

Bryan Fields: @bryanfields24

Kellan Finney: @Kellan_Finney 

---

Ashley reynolds

[00:00:00]Bryan Fields: What’s up guys. And welcome back to another episode of the dime I’m Brian Fields. And with me as always is Kellen Finney. And this week we’ve got a very special guest Ashley Reynolds of E M T CBD. Ashley, thanks for taking the time. How are you doing today?

[00:00:15]Ashley Reynolds: I am so good. And I’m so excited. This is like a six months booked in the making.

[00:00:20] So this is a hot show to have to get on. So I hope it’s, I think it’s worth

[00:00:24]Bryan Fields: the wait. I think we’ll make it worth the time. Kaelin. How

[00:00:27]Kellan Finney: are you? I’m doing well, you know, out here in the west coast, just going to hold it down. Um, enjoying life. Uh, how are you, Brian? I’m doing

[00:00:35]Bryan Fields: well. And so I guess for the record, Ashley, you’re located.

[00:00:40]Ashley Reynolds: I am in balmy, Morrisville Vermont. Right now

[00:00:43]Bryan Fields: that’s another east coaster.

[00:00:45]Kellan Finney: I was wondering if you’re going to bring that. I tried to gloss over it. And then I was like, I shouldn’t have said Colorado west coast

[00:00:50]Bryan Fields: Lackey. I thought you were prompting that I thought

[00:00:54]Kellan Finney: about it. And I was like, Ooh, maybe I shouldn’t walk myself into this

[00:00:56]Bryan Fields: one.

[00:00:57] We’ll have to get an Italian update. But I think, I think the [00:01:00] coast is now taking the lead, but it’s close. We’ll check. So Ashley, for our listeners that are unfamiliar with you, can you share a little bit about your.

[00:01:08]Ashley Reynolds: Yeah. So my name’s Ashley Reynolds, president co-founder of Elmer mountain therapeutics. We founded our business five years ago, which in the cannabis space feels like 50 years ago.

[00:01:18] Um, I came to the industry as a desperate postpartum mom looking for. Wellness in a natural plant-based way. And, um, one of my patients back when I was practicing dental hygiene suggested CBD, he was splitting his time between the east coast west coast. And so he had already heard all about CBD back in 2016 and even being from Vermont.

[00:01:41] Cannabis is readily available. Um, you know, I’d never, I never knew what CBD was like a lot of us, you know, and, uh, so fast forward here we are five years from now and, you know, I found relief. I needed to see a woman, a mother, a professional that was advocating for the use of [00:02:00] cannabis on a regular basis for postpartum anxiety and depression.

[00:02:03] And since I didn’t find one, I created one and I’ve inspired many, many. Um, to really turn to plant-based medicine, um, for postpartum anxiety, depression, insomnia, you name it. Um, here we are. So I’ve been able to do a Ted talk, which is insane. I don’t even know, like what is my life? I’m all about my journey into cannabis.

[00:02:27] I got to be on this show, which is also a dream come true. You guys are definitely pioneers to getting a window into what it’s like being in this industry. So thank you so much for being that light. Um, but yeah, here we are. That’s me. So

[00:02:39]Bryan Fields: I’d love to start with just, you know, diving into the space, obviously as a mom and kind of moving into cannabis.

[00:02:45] And even from the east coast standpoint, there are a little more stigmas attached. So any hesitations on that and what were some of those conversations early on when, you know, you let people know you’re moving into this.

[00:02:55]Ashley Reynolds: Yeah. I mean, here I am living in a tiny little town. I’ve practicing dental hygiene and Stowe [00:03:00] Vermont, which is like this big and you know, was really nervous obviously.

[00:03:06] Cause I didn’t want to give up my license. I didn’t want people to think I was going to hurt them or their children. Um, since I pretty much saw every family that lives in stow as a patient. And so, um, it was super nerve wracking, but because I. Found such relief in the plant. And because I was seeing so many struggling women and mothers, um, I just, I guess just felt like if, if I’m not going to do it, who’s going to do it.

[00:03:34] And simultaneously. Hashtag me too was happening and this huge embracement embracing of female run businesses here in Vermont and in the Northeast, like all of that sort of coalesced at the moment of me wanting to start this business. Um, and I tell this story a lot, but one of the very few. Influential entrepreneurs that I met that was like, fucking go for it was Donna Carpenter because it’s Vermont and she lives in [00:04:00] borough.

[00:04:00] And if you don’t know who Donna Carpenter is, she is the wife of the late Jake Burton of Burton snowboards. And so. It was really just like the universe being like, there’s no fear here, just go for it. Um, and I think also like for those of you that are women out there, when you get an idea in your head, like you really just like need to see it through to fruition.

[00:04:21] I definitely one of those women. And so, um, I felt like it was, I was unstoppable for a lot of reasons, but then. People like Jane West AC Bradick, who were simultaneously starting women grow and like hosting these incredible conferences, putting on YouTube, these incredible inspirational, um, chats just about how they’re getting into the space and what they’re seeing for women, and actually lack there of representation of women in the industry.

[00:04:46] And so, you know, I guess it was just right place, right time, you know, I just found all of these ways to be strong. And then, you know, the industry just took off. Like I started my business in may of 2017 and I quit my job. Um, nine months [00:05:00] later and like, I have two kids, I have a mortgage, like I’ve been practicing dental hygiene for 15 years.

[00:05:05] And like, friends were like, you’re insane. Like, what are you doing? And I was like, it’s now, or never like, I just, I need to do this. And luckily it’s worked out.

[00:05:20] I

[00:05:21]Kellan Finney: have a question. So like when you first got into the, into CBD and using it, were you worried that it might my, uh, affect your, your cognition and kind of get high? If you will, from

[00:05:31]Ashley Reynolds: the, oh gosh, before CBD somebody from urban Gwenna, one of my friends was working out with them out in California. Gave me like a one-to-one and was like, here, take this for your anxiety.

[00:05:42] And it helped a lot, like one dose helped a lot. And then I, I was at work and I was really feeling super anxious. And so I took three doses and then I was like high at work, which obviously like, what? I mean, thank God I can do my job. Autopilot after [00:06:00] practicing for so many years, but like that was obviously not a desired effect.

[00:06:03] And therefore I was like, well, this is not going to be an option for the type of plant based wellness that I’m going to go for. But, um, but yeah, I was definitely worried about it and I was only taking it at night too. Cause I was worried about taking CBD during the day for that very reason. Um, but yeah, for sure, that was a definite concern of mine and continued.

[00:06:23] Concern of many of my customers still to this day, despite having all the education and everything on our website saying that that’s not going to happen. You know, initially you just never know how you’re going to react. Have you

[00:06:35]Kellan Finney: noticed that, like the questions about that, have they kind of fallen off or have they gotten less from like a volume perspective four years ago when you guys first started.

[00:06:43]Ashley Reynolds: No, it’s, it’s more and it’s more targeted now. It’s all moms, all postpartum moms or healthcare professionals finally, who are like, you know, what do I need to know? You know, my state is going legal. What do I need to tell my patients? And [00:07:00] so having that nerdy, dental hygiene background that I do, like it’s provided such a beautiful window in.

[00:07:06] The language that they want to understand and the type of processes that our body has, that we need to know about to understand how to be better practitioners when our cust, our clients are using cannabis. So I feel like that’s a really sort of awesome little like secret weapon that I have about helping to continue to spell it.

[00:07:23] All these stigmas and just wrongful education around cannabis, but no, it’s the same exact questions because there’s the level of consumers that are just getting started and just barely dipping their toe toes into Canada. Curiosity, like even despite being a long time user myself, like I’m still like surprised by the plant.

[00:07:42] Like sometimes. Eat an edible. And I’m like, wow, that was really strong. That was no, that mother cannabis could do that to me anymore. She surprises me and I, I hope that she continues to surprise everybody. You know, it’s stay curious with the planet, you know,

[00:07:58]Bryan Fields: so want to lead into the [00:08:00] dead talk, you know, how did that come about?

[00:08:02] And then. Take us through like what that story’s bad. Cause I’ve got a couple of questions about that. Cause I really enjoyed your presentation. I don’t want to

[00:08:08]Ashley Reynolds: spoil any. Oh, thank you. Yeah, that was insane. That was like, um, the people of Ted read a tiny article about me representing women in the cannabis space, um, and trying to bring as many women businesses into the industry as possible, which I was very successful at doing here.

[00:08:24] And um, when they called, I thought it was a. And then I was like, no. And then I also was like, no, because I’m not ready to be that vulnerable. Like obviously like many of us, like I really respect head and I really respect the speakers that are on there and the subject matter. And the ability to basically have this piece of work live forever.

[00:08:45] I mean, um, and like, that’s a lot of pressure when I had just started my. I was also simultaneously getting, um, well, it didn’t happen, but purely for us trying to acquire us. Um, and [00:09:00] so it was this like crazy whirlwind of like we’re flying to Chicago and like this opportunity is coming up and like, they want me to be this person if they buy me and I want to be this person, if they don’t buy me.

[00:09:11] And, um, so it was this very weird time and people were like, well, you’re crazy. If you don’t do it, like you just, just come every day that like Ted calls and wants to. Have you do a talk and so you get assigned a coach. So like spoiler alert to those that think it’s just like all these amazing speakers, like the process from when you say yes to when you actually give the talk is like six months.

[00:09:33] Um, I wrote six different Ted talks because, um, the nature of the material, I really wanted to name the Ted talk, um, cannabis, cannabis, cannabis, but you don’t get to name your Ted talking to her. Um, but it’s just called cannabis a future without stigma. And I felt like the best thing I could do, uh, without getting myself in trouble without getting the FDA to like put a target on my back.

[00:09:58] I did like a one woman [00:10:00] show of, of creating a fictitious world of what it would be like as me playing myself, going to my doctor and asking about CBD as a first wave medicine for my symptoms of endocannabinoid deficiency, I E postpartum anxiety. And so. The iteration that was finally accepted by Ted. Um, also, um, I spoke to an audience of 420 people, which like, I know it sounds super lucky to have lucky shocker, but like, it really is like, it’s, it comes up in my life a lot.

[00:10:31] And so I spoke to 420 people, which as you can imagine, it was like the largest crowd I’d ever spoken to and took a shit load of CBD. I put my feet on the floor and like walk myself out into that spotlight. And then the disappointing part is that all of the other people who gave Ted talks that night, um, their Ted talks were up on YouTube, like instantly.

[00:10:56] And so like the momentum of what we had built for [00:11:00] people to get to view it, like was drastically muted because it, our, my particular Ted talk, as you can imagine, it was like one of 12 Ted talks about cannabis and the entire country, entire world at the time. Went through this like four months long review process.

[00:11:16] So like all my other colleagues Ted’s come out and then mine doesn’t come out for like many, many months after to the point where like I thought maybe it wasn’t going to come out and it wasn’t going to get published. Um, and I had kind of like started the process of like, um, at least I got to say it to 420 people, you know, it was like, really like, shit.

[00:11:36] Like it was too controversial. Like they, it definitely. Don’t support what I’m talking about. Luckily, if you guys read underneath the video, there’s this beautiful paragraph. Disclaimer, that’s that Ted does not support. I talked to them. Um, but that, you know, seek a doctor’s attention if you want to, you know, cross reference what I write or what I said, but, um, yeah, [00:12:00] that process is really wild because I felt like, you know, really like pulled back the veil of like what Ted was trying to do of like being.

[00:12:09] Innovative and groundbreaking, like there’s still even around cannabis at that time. It was still a lot of constraints about making sure it was like appropriate to put to the masses. And that was disappointing.

[00:12:22]Bryan Fields: I really thought that was lawyers too. We appreciate you being vulnerable there because that’s gotta be such a hard thing.

[00:12:29] Right. You’re so you’re so hyped up for this speak. You absolutely crush it. And then you’re wondering. Is this something I did? Is it something Ted did? Is he cannabis? Is it even more of like the niche based back that like, you’re kind of shedding light on the topic that a lot of people are kind of uncomfortable to discuss.

[00:12:43] And I think that was the most important part is like, when I started watching your talk, I kind of thought one thing. And as you took us through the journey of like speaking to your doctor, Wow. I was like, Ashley’s, doctor’s like really forward. I was like, I’m sure that’s like the approach. And I was like, that’s [00:13:00] amazing.

[00:13:00] I was like, I wonder where her doctor is. Cause like, I don’t feel like, because I know my wife wasn’t offered those same conversations with them. And when you said this doesn’t happen, I was like, ah, she got me. Right. Like she got me, but I thought that was such an important part of it. Yeah. I was hopeful in that moment.

[00:13:17] And then almost disappointed that we are so far behind and there are so many challenges there. Ashley and I want to kind of go back to you is like from a doctor standpoint, that’s one that’s hard to accomplish, right? Not all doctors are comfortable prescribing that. And then from a female standpoint, that’s kind of a ledge where if you’re not consuming cannabis, now that’s even another step forward to say, Hey, like this is something I’m not sure of, especially if it’s your first time.

[00:13:40] So what’s your feeling?

[00:13:43]Ashley Reynolds: Oh man. I mean, that’s just like the whole precipice of wanting to start this business. And as a whole, you know, I never really cared if I like sold CBD. Like that. Wasn’t what I was particularly sold on. Just the, I guess, empowerment that you can be in the driver’s seat [00:14:00] about your healthcare decisions and that going to your doctor when you’re in the most vulnerable state.

[00:14:06] For me experiencing postpartum anxiety and depression. When you were a shell of yourself and you’re not sleeping and your whole metabolic system is out of whack because anonymized is not getting produced or to AIG is just like, non-existent because you’re in a stressful environment after having a baby.

[00:14:24] The last thing I want to do is go to a doctor. Who’s like, well, like you’re a criminal for trying this. And like, how dare you? Like I’m calling DCF for like, thank God. That was not my. Experience, but the more women I talked to, the more horrific of a story, people were fed about cannabis. And so, I mean, it doesn’t end the advocacy doesn’t end.

[00:14:48] I don’t see it ever ending. But as a first-time user, you know, it’s still so daunting. Unfortunately, we have all these shitty brands, um, from [00:15:00] all the spectrums of cannabis that have entered the space and it makes it so hard to discern and all you want is to feel better, um, or a little bit more like your old self.

[00:15:10] And it’s really just unfair how. Just unregulated and all over the place. It is. So, um, I just hope that there continues to be many lights. Um, like the show, like the women that I get to hang out with all the time, like what Rosie Matteo’s doing, what Bianca cider’s doing with high society, mamas, um, you know, Mary Pryor’s doing for social equity.

[00:15:35] Like these are people that. I don’t really see as looking at it as like a paycheck for them. It’s just like a sense of duty to continue being that voice. Um, because you guys see, like, everyone was so excited last week, like federal legalization is happening again. And look at this. This is amazing. It’s all coming up.

[00:15:51] We’re all gonna get to be legit here. And then like the next day it’s like, well, no, actually it’s not. And it’s like, oh man, when is this gonna [00:16:00] end? But I don’t know if I answered your question. I kind of went a little tie right there. I mean, I think you’re

[00:16:05]Bryan Fields: perfectly well sad and all those people are absolute trailblazers, right?

[00:16:08] Because the challenges that they face are maybe even more than some of the others, especially with some of the stigmas in there. And, and for first time, that for me recently, one thing I learned about was kind of mom shame that I had no idea about and, and the challenges of that. I can only imagine that if you are bringing that to your group, like your, your friendship group, and you’re saying, Hey, like the doctor offered me pharmaceuticals, cause I’m not sleeping.

[00:16:30] And instead I’m going with CBD. I can imagine if other people, I still have that stigma or on shore now you’ve got like that social, but social dynamic pressure that probably plays an extra layer of challenge in the conversation.

[00:16:42]Ashley Reynolds: Oh, for sure. Like, I still won’t smoke on camera. Like, you know, and people can hate if they want to hate, but like I.

[00:16:50] Just don’t feel comfortable. I haven’t figured out a way I barely do in front of my children. Like I feel like I just haven’t found that spot for myself where like, [00:17:00] that is like one of my favorite modalities to enjoy. There’s so much stigma just around smoke it, like

[00:17:06]Bryan Fields: just that no problem. Right. Like nobody, no

[00:17:08]Ashley Reynolds: problems.

[00:17:10] Right, right. And like I’ve been playing around, so I’m almost 40. And I think like a lot of people do when they get to middle age is they start to like really be evaluate just like all things. And I think the pandemic really highlighted this because I definitely became an alcoholic for probably like a good 14 months.

[00:17:24] Um, and so. Like now I’m like really dialing it back. And I’m heavily using cannabis to help with that, you know, with curbing that, um, and I’ve been able to go like four or 5, 6, 7 days without drinking any alcohol and then I’ll have like a beer or out all glass of wine. And I just get like so much effective at now.

[00:17:43] And it makes me so much more tired than. I’m just sticking with cannabis. So I think we’re going to see this like big wave of people that really just for like no other thing that just straight up, like, it’s better for you. You know what I mean? No, one’s exercising [00:18:00] enough. No, one’s eating the right foods all the time.

[00:18:02] Like if there’s one thing that you could like try to minimize, at least that’s what my thought process has been lately is like, try cannabis, try to like drink. And like, see what happens and I feel amazing. I mean, you can

[00:18:13]Kellan Finney: go for a walk on cannabis. You can eat a bunch of healthy food on cannabis.

[00:18:17] Typically when you drink, you’re not like I should go for a nice walk

[00:18:24]Bryan Fields: unless it’s to the next

[00:18:24]Ashley Reynolds: bar. So, no. So back to your point brand just about like the new user and just like women in general, like, I think that women are ready for this. And I think that, you know, whether we as a society give them permission to, or people like me just give a woman permission to every customer that places an order I’m giving them.

[00:18:46] You know, good for you for taking control of your wellness and your decisions to provide wellness for yourself. Like, yeah. I mean, I just hope it never ends. I hope that, you know, the shaming that you mentioned, like these people that are [00:19:00] getting into the Vermont rec market, there’s a lot of awesome women.

[00:19:02] And the biggest question I get from them is like, how do you like build your skin up? Like, how do you deal with like being labeled like a, a mom? And for me, I wear that proudly, but for some. They don’t live in places like Vermont that embrace it. Like, you know, I lived in a state where like, I became like, quote unquote, like locally famous within like a couple moments of saying that I’m starting a cannabis company.

[00:19:26] Like I was on the news and like everybody watches the news in the state. And so like, there was no hiding from it. Like, I don’t even know that I even got the choice to be like, whoa, I want to be more private about this. Like, it just kind of like chose me. And I think that that is what I’m seeing as the turn of the wheel is now.

[00:19:43] Women are like using Instagram D not even associate, but just to like, talk about being Kana moms, like that is brand new. That is only new as of like, really like the last six months that I’ve really seen. Like they’re not just like influencer Canada personas. They’re like [00:20:00] just straight up. I’m here to support and educate and that’s fucking awesome.

[00:20:03] Like that shows me the power of the plant can like supersede that like Capitol.

[00:20:10]Bryan Fields: Yeah, absolutely. And I think Mo more importantly, I think that shows incremental progress, right? Because it takes individuals like yourself and Rosie to continue to trail blaze forward so that others who may be a little more hesitant can lean on you guys and say, Hey.

[00:20:24] They’ve done it. Maybe I can try it because not everyone’s comfortable with being the first, but what more people are comfortable doing is recognizing that there are solutions outside of the norm that can help people. Because as, as a parent, if you’re not taking care of yourself, you for sure can’t do a good job of taking care of your child.

[00:20:43]Ashley Reynolds: I hear that. Oh, I hear that. And I feel like it’s helped me like play Legos for 45 minutes with my five-year-old when, like, I don’t want to do that. You know, for me, like motherhood has been such a road Rocky road because I had the career. Then I had children and it was like, [00:21:00] really just insanity of like grieving my former self, but also falling in love with these two beings and to see it now is like, thank God I have my kids to ground me and keep me from becoming a workaholic because in this budding industry and becoming an entrepreneur, like if you’ve ever been bit by the bug, as you guys have was starting this podcast, It is more fulfilling at times than the like mundane laundry packaged snacks go into the bus stop.

[00:21:29] Like for me, I felt so much shame, not about my cannabis use, but I felt so much shame around like wanting to like have something outside of my home. That was. And I think that, that goes hand in hand with wellness. Women are so used to negotiating themselves out of self care because we have to go to the bus stop and get the lunches and do this and do that and do this and do that.

[00:21:49] And like, it’s not in our nature to like stop and be like, Hmm, what is good for me today? Like, that’s just like, not in our vocabulary. And so I felt shame of [00:22:00] like, wanting to like, or becoming more. And I think Rosie really highlights it in her own way, um, with how much travel she does and like the compromise that comes with like being a mom, but like also being really ambitious.

[00:22:13] And then also being this like, quote unquote, like figure head for women in cannabis. It’s like no pressure, but I think it’s this amazing, delicate balance that I don’t know that I could do without. Like, I just like, if we can just spend a moment praising whether cannabis for at second. Um, but like, I don’t think I could do it without her.

[00:22:35]Bryan Fields: So final take home message on this specific topic for women out there who are struggling with the idea of kind of moving forward, where, where should they start? What, what products, what concepts, what information should they start looking into in order to help them make a better decision?

[00:22:50]Ashley Reynolds: Gosh. What feels good, you know, is organic important to you is supporting a woman business important to you is, you [00:23:00] know, cheapest affordable, important to you.

[00:23:02] You know, at this point, the industry is so established. Really, whatever wishlist you have, you can find that brand. Um, I would say smaller is always better. I don’t care what anybody says. I don’t care what these big nationals say. Like I know it in skincare. I know it in going to my farmer’s market. I know in my cannabis, like smallish better.

[00:23:22] Hmm. These little producers, it’s going to take everybody trying to, um, support them to fight the biggies. So if you can, um, and CBD is an awesome place. I fucking love full spectrum CBD because you can take, you know, more than 25 milligrams, that’s our suggested dose. And like, if you don’t want a psychoactive effect, great.

[00:23:43] But like, if you want to get a little more lifted and sort of like practice what a one-to-one with. Yeah, it’s more expensive than smoking a joint, but you can definitely play around with a more rec side to using a full spectrum product. So I love people finding out that they can like [00:24:00] get a little elevated, you know, um, in the right scenario.

[00:24:05] And then. You know, go, if you can, like, don’t go to doctor, sorry guys. I know I come from the medical world, but like, until we get caught up, like start talking to your friends about it, bring it up, bring it up to your massage therapist, bring it up to people like, you know, you guys all listened to the Ted talk hopefully, but it really puts the focus on us as a society and as a consumer.

[00:24:27] And like, are we willing to be honest with ourselves? Are we willing to be honest with the people that we let you know, be healers in our world? Start the dialogue, um, because it’s definitely not, it’s not, as, it’s not as talked about as we think, unless you are the conversation starter. So get talking. What do you think

[00:24:46]Kellan Finney: the best form factor to start with this?

[00:24:49] If you like a tincture or a pill or what, what, what would you suggest?

[00:24:53]Ashley Reynolds: Gosh, you know, I think honestly, like if you’re never tried cannabis before, go [00:25:00] with. Like who doesn’t have a sore muscle who doesn’t have a headache who hasn’t, you know, slept funny, like try a really nice high quality bomb. And like seeing is believing.

[00:25:13] Like, I just love it when people are like, you know, I know that people say CBD is great or cannabis is good, but I rolled it on and like immediately my muscles felt better. And that’s when I’m like, If it does that on the outside. And what do you think it can do on the inside? So, you know, everyone was like, try joy, tried sinks, try this, try a pill.

[00:25:30] But like, no dude start topicals and let the plant speak for itself.

[00:25:34]Bryan Fields: I love that you shared that because I’ve given that to a lot of people who are very hesitant and their response to me goes, it worked. And I was like, well, what’d you think was gonna happen? Like, you know, like I’m kinda like perplexed back.

[00:25:46] Like I’m trying to continue. Were you anticipating a different result? Like this was a solution for your problem. Like, that’s, that’s kind of how those work and they’re like, actually I don’t really know what I thought. Like I heard bad things about this, so I wasn’t sure. And I think that goes into the problem, but I think [00:26:00] starting with a form factor that they’re, they’re comfortable with and, and I think that’s an easy start.

[00:26:03] Cause I think the animals have their own issues where everyone associates, the brownie concept from college, the tinctures are kind of weird because we haven’t consumed them. And then when it gets into like the pill form, I think people. So stating maybe pharmaceutical baseline. I think starting with the bomb is a really good one.

[00:26:18] So I want to continue on this topic. Let’s talk about testing. That’s really important to you. And I know with your website, you’ve got all the CFA’s online. So is that something that was an important feature when, when starting with.

[00:26:29]Ashley Reynolds: Oh, for sure. I mean, the first friend that I ever discovered as a kind of curious, you know, desperate mom was Bluebird and they, at the time were some of the only people that had CBD selling online that actually had lab results.

[00:26:44] And although it was like super primitive and it was really just coming down to like, is it compliant or is it not. You know, definitely sparked my interest and then growing up in Vermont, like the commitment to quality and like made in Vermont is just like a gold standard and an arbiter of quality in and of itself.

[00:26:59] We know what that [00:27:00] means when we say it’s made in Vermont, goes above and beyond what organic can certify and. You know, Vermont has its own certifications for what organic is in our own state, because we’re just so, um, forward-thinking about what we think is right and good to consume and put in our bodies and on our bodies.

[00:27:16] So it’s bringing all of that to it. And I also felt like if this is something that I’m going to be adjusting on the regular, like I am the customer, like the whole time I was starting the company, like I was making products for me and like then replicating them and understanding that there’s millions of women just like me.

[00:27:31] And so I wanted a product that I felt was going to be safe. And also like wasn’t going to be full of mold or contaminants or heavy metals. Like I want it to be able to prove that. And at the time, you know, yes, that was on some other brands, minds that were coming out in Vermont and in the Northeast. Not with as much of a fine tooth comb as I felt like I was being, because I also, again, I’ll keep coming back to like being from this dental world.

[00:27:56] Like you have to have your shit together, like reading journals [00:28:00] and like having a non-biased, uh, article that’s published, that’s like changing the science around dentistry and how we treat patients like. That’s like how I grew up in like, learned how to be in dentistry. And so I brought that idea of like, how can I, if people are going to try to poke so many holes in my theories about this plant, like don’t give them any places to, to see your weaknesses.

[00:28:21] And if we can show the quality, if we can back up our extraction method, it’s like being another arbiter of quality that is then, um, reinforced by our labs. And then if we have nothing to hide. Why aren’t we just posting them and like that, wasn’t a like, oh my God, we’re going to beat the competition by posting.

[00:28:38] I just thought it was the right thing to do. And then like, I referenced it all the time when I gave talks about like, this is what this means, like, this is the number that you want to pay attention to. This has the number that you want to pay attention to. Like, you know, just so people knew what they were looking at and then becoming just a more conscious consumer because for me, It has to come down to safety, like recreation.[00:29:00]

[00:29:00] I know, you know, I look at G from Papa and Barkley a lot. Like he doesn’t like that where I agree. Like it’s all cannabis, you know, it’s all, it’s all wellness. It’s all. Um, I don’t think it’s like recreational or medical. I think it’s all. Um, and if we’re really touting it as something that is for all things, it should be of the highest quality and you shouldn’t be hiding it.

[00:29:20] And then like I started seeing larger companies that like, you couldn’t find their seats. Are they buried them in their website. And then that just became fuel of like, well, this is what we’re doing differently. Like, yeah. Like we don’t, we aren’t required to do any of this. It’s more expensive. It’s a pain in the ass.

[00:29:33] It’s more time consuming. I have to break the locks. I have to send things out of state. Like all of it, it sucks, but it’s so important.

[00:29:41]Kellan Finney: Yeah. Especially if people are using it as like a medicine, I think that holding it to kind of the similar standards as like a pharmaceutical is so, so important to like establishing that trust with the, with the consumers, you know,

[00:29:53]Ashley Reynolds: Yeah.

[00:29:54] And even on the smaller producers, like, I don’t want to get like unwoke and like on, you know, bespoke about my products, [00:30:00] but like there needs to be some, some level of standards. Like there really does. I so sad to see what’s happening in Maine, where it’s. The wreck is now fighting the, you know, putting up these like horrible, like slander per campaigns to the medical, um, the medical market in may because the testing protocols are not as stringent.

[00:30:22] Like that is bullshit. Like the products and the quality have to speak for themselves, whether your medical or will your rec like do the right thing and test your products and make sure they’re clean.

[00:30:31]Bryan Fields: Like who do you think’s at fault in that kind of like battle between the two different.

[00:30:36]Ashley Reynolds: I’m still at a point right now in the cannabis space where like, there’s plenty of times I could have just like, you know, canceled somebody, you know, particularly a white man in this industry.

[00:30:46] Uh, plenty of times already. Um, unfortunately, but like, I don’t think we’re in an industry we’re in a place with our industry where. Diplomacy is not dead. Like we can’t be throwing stones in glass houses. Like we need to help each other to legitimize this industry as a whole, [00:31:00] because everybody’s looking for reasons to not make it legitimate.

[00:31:02] And so if we’re just like becoming this like dirty, messy, dramatic, like he said, she said like, it’s going to take us down.

[00:31:12]Kellan Finney: Correct. And it’s also, that’s also common in a lot of states, honestly, that they have like established medical program that doesn’t have as stringent of testing. And then all of a sudden they go to the recreational market.

[00:31:22] And I think a lot of it has to do with like psychologically speaking. Right. And again, going back to like trying to prevent any. W showing

[00:31:30]Bryan Fields: any weakness, if you

[00:31:31]Kellan Finney: will like having a recreational market, meaning like it’s available to everyone and there’s no, um, kind of like gate into it, right? Like if you want to go buy something out of the medical dispensary, you’d have to go talk to a doctor, get a medical card for a specific reason.

[00:31:44] Right. So it’s kind of regulated in terms of the entry point with the, with the recreational market. It’s like anyone can go in there. So they have to kind of try to at least from a public persona perspective. Create this idea that, Hey, we’re doing everything we can to protect the general public, [00:32:00] just because there is that stigma still.

[00:32:01] And, and so that’s really common, honestly, in like Colorado, the same kind of it’s still existing in Colorado, right? Like the, the products in medical dispensary’s do not have the same testing that products in the recreational dispensary goes.

[00:32:14]Ashley Reynolds: It’s by design. Don’t you think it’s by designed to make us be divisive?

[00:32:19] Like it’s gross,

[00:32:20]Bryan Fields: but we shouldn’t be arguing over what is safe. Right? Like I think both sides of the market can be pretty clear. Like this is safe, this is not safe. Like that’s not a gray area in my opinion. So it’s disappointing to know that, but sure. Obviously there’s different rules in different sections.

[00:32:34]Ashley Reynolds: And again, I just tried to be the light, like fuck the standards and like, fuck the organic stamp. If you notice, like, my bottle does not have that on it. Cause I don’t believe. I believe that we go above and beyond what our standard standard protocols are. And if people eventually want to change the policy to be like EMT great.

[00:32:52] But like, we’re not changing.

[00:32:54]Bryan Fields: I love it. I love it. So talk to us about when you started your brand and the delicate balance between funding and maybe looking for [00:33:00] outside funding. And one of the challenges of cannabis is the limited ability for access to capital. So can you kind of expand.

[00:33:06]Ashley Reynolds: Yeah. So my husband and we’re supposed to go on a honeymoon and instead I was like, I want to start a cannabis company.

[00:33:16] Um, so, uh, yeah, so we didn’t go on that honeymoon, but, um, that was like the first startup and I knew that I needed a really beautiful logo and label. Um, I knew that. It to appeal to as many women as possible who would put it on their kitchen counter, and then have it be a conversation starter to the girlfriends when they were over for wine or play group.

[00:33:37] And, um, I knew that I wanted to have a T uh, internal and external, so I knew I needed to have money for product development. And so, um, yeah, we partnered with a Colorado based company and who had great standards, um, and was willing to send. [00:34:00] All different shapes and size bottles from Colorado to Vermont, for us to get up and running.

[00:34:05] So when we started in 2017, the hemp program had only been in existence for like nine months. And there was really only one other company that I know of that was like growing and like getting it up off the ground from the farming standpoint, no products, just agriculture. So we skipped that step because we were able to have a partner that would send us product that we were essentially Whitely.

[00:34:27] So that helped instantly generate revenue, which again, I’d never started a business before come from a dental background. Had no idea like that brand is the king of the supply chain. Um, And so 2017, we like became the women thing, like right off the bat, we had this fancy label. I was doing all this, these, um, these talks in restaurants after hours here in, in Stowe.

[00:34:52] And so I was like gaining this like local energy and celebrity, but nobody could buy my product anywhere. Cause it wasn’t on shelves [00:35:00] at whole foods or anything like that. So they had to come physically come to the. That I was like by word of mouth promoting that I was going to be at. I would have a little bit of product.

[00:35:09] I would talk to like a half an hour and then sell all the products. And so like, we did that for like many months until I was like, this is stupid. We need to sell it. Like someone else needs to be selling it. And I was too afraid to have a website because I heard horror stories of people’s assets, getting frozen and websites getting taken down.

[00:35:24] And I was like, fuck that. I’m just going to focus on retail and brick and. And so all of this was funded through cashflow. So all of that was bootstrapped. Um, and then I won a pitch competition in Vermont that was like, um, some of the like best and brightest, uh, businesses pooled all their money. So, um, like seventh generation and magic hat and folks that started these companies that are legacy businesses in Vermont.

[00:35:52] Pull the little bit of money together. And it was just money. There was no strings attached. And so I won that and put that [00:36:00] into transitioning our products from Colorado to Vermont based product, because what was happening simultaneously in Vermont is like all of these amazing legacy growers for growing hemp.

[00:36:10] They didn’t know how to process it. They definitely didn’t know how to sell it, have a brand. And they were like, you’re doing your part. You seem really good at that. We’ll do our part that we’re really good at. And so we built this network of really small farms. Built this network of teeny tiny extraction facilities, which there was like two in the state at the time and made that transition with that money.

[00:36:30] So again, didn’t have any investors. And then, um, we do have one angel investor that owns 5% of the company that we used, uh, right in 2018 when things were just going nuts. And that was just all to help scale. Like we had this incredible demand. Pretty much no competition. And they helped us really capitalize on that.

[00:36:51] But these are people who luckily have become very wealthy and understand, um, what it’s like to be a young entrepreneur and not want to give up a [00:37:00] lot of your company. But I did sit at a lot of tables, um, and you know, people didn’t get. When I pitched them that this is a brand, that’s a woman forward cannabis brand.

[00:37:11] And like, you know, they just looked at me like I had 10 heads. Why are you alienating? 50% of the population did don’t you know, that men are the leading consumers of cannabis. And I was like, yes, I do all those things. But I think that women are sort of this untapped resource that we need to advocate for and then provide these amazing products for it.

[00:37:28] And so, yeah, this one particular gentleman, um, he, you know, is like a godfather here of business in Vermont and. I remember when I brought my kids to the meeting because I couldn’t find childcare and I accidentally bumped into him with the stroller and he turns around and of course I knew who he was. He had no idea who I was.

[00:37:47] And he was like, you brought your kids to the meeting. And I was like, well, yeah, they’re like part of the brand. And he was like, you’re joking. I was like, oh, the first 30 seconds of meeting, I was like, this is not going to go laugh. [00:38:00] He still wanted to invest in the company, but he wanted 40% of the company.

[00:38:02] I was like, that’s not going to happen. And so now here we are like, you know, Bruce and bloody over the last two years, it’s a pandemic. And, you know, thankfully gosh, you know, SBA and FDA and the, um, the, all of the like federal bailout, like we’re recognized, you know, cannabis was recognized. And thank God because we went from like pretty much all brick and mortar or retail, a little bit of e-com, um, To like, you know, 90% e-com.

[00:38:33] And so that was like a crazy transition of like, learning how to like, have a digital footprint, again, being like this teeny, teeny, tiny company and like trying to scale all of that. And so, you know, luckily the SBA recognized us and we were able to kind of fund through that, but we paired way down, you know, I got rid of my sales staff, I got rid of.

[00:38:54] All my demo workers and like we’ve really stripped way down to being really lean and really [00:39:00] mean. And I got to say like, of course I didn’t want a pandemic. The ability to go through that whirlwind, which like boom and bust cannabis. Like there’s no time to be still. There’s no time to say no, there’s no time to like really reflect on like what your crazy life is.

[00:39:16] Thank God we’ve had this time to just like, stop and like really look at what we’ve built. Now we have data that we analyze. Now we have, you know, trends that we analyze and now we’re looking at this like, wow, Open market of like, where did we really want to specialize? And like, it’s amazing that we are having those types of conversations that like, we have something to jump off of.

[00:39:40] Um, and I know there’s a lot of unfortunate brands that didn’t, weren’t able to weather that storm. Um, but that was never going to be, there was never going to be a market that was going to be thousands of brands, big enough, you know, to hold, hold them all. So I feel really lucky, but I think what the real secret sauce is is that we haven’t changed who we want to be and who.[00:40:00]

[00:40:00] And like, I could have easily sold my morals on many occasions. I could have sold it securely and then they just would’ve killed the brand. And then that wouldn’t exist in AB you know, Ashley Reynolds, the brand wouldn’t even exist. The Ted talks certainly wouldn’t have existed, you know? And now we see this like big change in the industry of like, yeah, these big players are in.

[00:40:20] They’re not going away and they are going to be successful, but it’s almost like the rebel forest is like all of these boutique producers and, um, micro producers that are really creating a name for themselves and really telling the consumer, like, don’t support those guys. Like they’re going to be successful in their own.

[00:40:38] Right. But like, we don’t have to, we don’t have to support them just like we buy locally for farms or for our vegetables in our fruit. Like the same beautiful thing is happening in cannabis. And I think. I think you’re really going to see the brand sugar off now. Like whoever is really going to be strong and.

[00:40:55] Be able to stand the test of time. Like we’re going to see those breakout brands happen. [00:41:00]

[00:41:00]Kellan Finney: I agree. I think it’s, uh, it’s cool because like the, I compare it to kind of like the, the microbrew industry, right? Like you had for the longest time, these like mainstay beer companies that just dominated it. And then all of a sudden, there’s this slow turn where people realized that they could go buy hops and kind of home brew.

[00:41:18] And then that led to like microbrews being formed. Right. And all of that kind of. More locally produced, uh, consumables, if you will. And it’s cool. Cause cannabis kind of just skip that whole phase with, uh, major companies dominating the whole market. So it’s going to be really, really interesting to see how the whole pie is divided amongst all the players

[00:41:38]Ashley Reynolds: right now.

[00:41:38] Oh, I agree. And like, until like things get sorted out nationally from a recreational standpoint, like I also feel so blessed that I had access to national market and like. Everybody thinks that sales are going to like drop off the wayside for CVD and like reckless, just going to take over. But like my customers, my consumers are like really happy at the wellness that they’ve achieved with the use of CBD and the rest [00:42:00] of their healthy lifestyle.

[00:42:00] That like, I hope they smoke a joint on four 20, and I hope that they smoke a joint, you know, on their birthday and like, you know, on the weekends when they’re home, but like a majority of my customers, like they’re really happy with where they’re at. I feel like we’re just going to like operate under the radar.

[00:42:15] Like there’s going to be so much noise for the wreck and so much commotion and drama and all the expense and just like, who’s going out of business and she was merging and who’s this and who’s that. And like, at least for here in Vermont, like so much more propaganda is being put out to the cannabis space.

[00:42:31] That’s like, here are all the companies that this one company owns, just so you know. Yes, these are all different brand names, but yeah. Here’s who who’s behind it. And I think that that’s such a, like, talk about stigma, like there’s stigma,

[00:42:48]Bryan Fields: uh, Ashley, since you’ve been in the cannabinoid industry, what has been the biggest missing?

[00:42:55]Ashley Reynolds: Uh, that it’s easy that everyone’s just like making [00:43:00] insane amounts of money. Um, when we see these deals, like all stock and like, you know, potential. So like, yeah. Like this industry is like gangbusters and thriving, but it’s crazy expensive at every step of the way, uh, right down to like putting your money into the bank, even cost more.

[00:43:20] Um, but yeah, it’s, uh, that’s like the biggest that it’s easy and that you make lots of money. Yeah.

[00:43:27]Bryan Fields: If all of us were before we do predictions, we ask all of our guests, if you could sum up your experience in a main takeaway or lesson learned to pass onto the next generation, what would.

[00:43:41]Ashley Reynolds: Ooh, don’t plant your feet.

[00:43:43] Fuck business plans. Um, and don’t hire smart people and tell them what to do.

[00:43:55]Bryan Fields: All right. Prediction time. Ashley, what year do [00:44:00] you think we will see cannabis use on an intake form for medical forms?

[00:44:07]Ashley Reynolds: God, it takes forever. Probably 10 years at minimum 10 years. And probably you’ll only see him, like on like a maybe dental form, maybe,

[00:44:21]Bryan Fields: maybe. So 20 30, 2. Yeah, I’m going to say maybe

[00:44:28]Kellan Finney: even longer, right?

[00:44:29] Like you’re talking, like there has to be like a fundamental change within the medical educational process in the Western world. Right? Like we’ve, we’ve mentioned this a lot on our show and, uh, it’s funny. It just keeps coming up. But like the endocannabinoid system is not taught in medical school. Right.

[00:44:44] So like we have to have a fundamental change within how we. Make doctors, right. From a society perspective. And I mean, those that takes time, right? So I think a generation probably. So like 20,

[00:44:56]Bryan Fields: 25 years, you see gen Z right

[00:44:59]Kellan Finney: now, [00:45:00] kids are just nailing in college and just starting medical school. When they’re like 40, 50 after they’ve had their careers.

[00:45:07] I think then that’s when, and they have like the political acumen and political power, if you will, to actually facilitate those kinds of changes. Because right now all those teachers are coming from people, um, who. Much older than us. And they are used to kind of, um, the pot kill you and it’s the devil’s lettuce and all those kinds of things.

[00:45:29] So that’s my, my prediction. So

[00:45:32]Bryan Fields: 2045, I was looking for a year. I was just rambling. Like we’re going to need a year for the records. What do you think, Brian? You know, that’s a, that’s a, probably a good guess, which is really unfortunate. And then like, as you were saying, like governor Rick gates, who said, if you legalize cannabis, it will kill your kid.

[00:45:50] Let’s say they do put it on the form. Everyone’s going to feel uncomfortable, filling it out, especially if there’s the stigmas on it. So, I mean, to get to that point, we’ve got so much work to do from a stigma standpoint. [00:46:00] And then I think even if you put it on a form, you’re going to upset so many older people that need to like move on because they’re going to be like, are you kidding me?

[00:46:07] Like this is accepted now. Right? Some people have some of the older generation has some challenges still with some of the new way thinkings. Uh, they still are used to maybe the past. I think something like this would be a very big slap in their face, just because I think it’s it’s too in front of them.

[00:46:22] So I mean, 20, 45 is just so far away, but, but maybe that could be a good guess. And I think maybe I’ll split the difference 20, 38, and just hope that I play the prices. Right. You know,

[00:46:35]Ashley Reynolds: correctly and you’re forgetting. First, we have to acknowledge that this plant even exists. So there’s that. And then there already is a underground network of healers and physicians and PAs that I get to have privilege and work with.

[00:46:52] And even they feel comfortable telling me that they write medical cards, but they’re not telling their colleagues. They write that in the cards no fucking way. No. [00:47:00] Nope.

[00:47:00]Bryan Fields: I’m still kind of like a little hesitant to even tell my back there or to ask him. Cause like, I just don’t want to have to have that conversation.

[00:47:06] And then ultimately be disappointed, right? Because he’s not aware of these things. How was he able to make good recommendations for him? Especially when I tell him, Hey, like, you know, the Xanax you’ve been prescribing me for my anxiety. I don’t really take that anymore. I take this other thing instead and it makes me feel better and I don’t feel cloudy and he’d be like, well, what like, oh, or

[00:47:23]Ashley Reynolds: you accidentally, or you accidentally over prescribed.

[00:47:26] This is my biggest thing is you accidentally can overprescribe someone because we know that cannabis slows down the metabolism of any compound in. ’cause that’s what it does. It slows down that P four 50 liver enzyme. So if you prescribe someone Xanax, 10 milligrams, they think they’re getting 10 milligrams, that’s staying in their system longer.

[00:47:44] And it’s the effect is amplified. If they’re using cannabis, they don’t know that the doctor doesn’t know that everybody’s in the dark about this. And then ultimately the patient is getting over prescribed or. And potentially put it in a dangerous state all because we didn’t have a simple conversation.

[00:47:58] Is do you use weed? Do [00:48:00] you smoke weed? The devil’s lettuce? Do you use that? No. Okay. All right. Take less of this,

[00:48:07]Bryan Fields: ask you how many drinks do you have? Like a day.

[00:48:11]Ashley Reynolds: Exactly. And you’ve been smoking. How many cigarettes a day are you smoking? Like we’re getting real detailed on those, but no, I mean, we’re, we’re just a really, really long way off and at least right now, There’s more comfort and acceptance in just the small, small practitioner talking to their.

[00:48:31] And like, there’s going to be more of those, but like, I would love to see a world where I go to a dental conference where we’re talking about what, you know, if you see, you know, certain manifestations in the mouth, then maybe it is going to mean that they’re smoking out of a vape and a bong, and then suggest that they use a tincture or a capsule or an edible, like let’s have that conversation, not shaming them.

[00:48:52] Actually helped them through the use of their use of cannabis, but like, yeah, I mean, I’ve tried to speak at dental conferences [00:49:00] and, you know, I think I’m pretty like, you know, accredited to be able to speak in front of people, but it’s all about abuse, any sort of cannabis, like conversations that are happening at conferences right now.

[00:49:10] It’s all about how do you spot abuse? And if that’s where we’re at right now in 2022, we got a long fucking way to go.

[00:49:16]Bryan Fields: Perfectly said, perfectly said, so Ashley, for those who want to get a touch, they want to learn more and they want to see some of your products work in their.

[00:49:23]Ashley Reynolds: EMT CBD that’s me across all, all the platforms.

[00:49:27] So yeah, easy to find and check out the Ted talk. I got the Ted

[00:49:31]Bryan Fields: talk. It’s awesome. I’m sorry. I gave it away for everyone. up. So, thanks so much for your time, Ashley.

[00:49:39]Ashley Reynolds: Thank you so much. You guys.

Editors’ Note: This is the transcript version of the podcast. Please note that due to time and audio constraints, transcription may not be perfect. We encourage you to listen to the podcast, embedded below if you need any clarification. We hope you enjoy!

This week we are joined by Adam Young Development Officer for Realm of Caring to discuss : 

• How Realm provides Support for those in Need
• Powerful customer stories and the heroes guiding them 
• How they are helping change the Cannabis Stigma  

About Realm of Caring :

Through research and education, Realm of Caring (RoC) is facilitating the mainstream acceptance of cannabinoid-based therapies and building an empowered community. RoC is committed to research into novel healthcare options to improve quality of life. The organization leverages a deep bench of experience and leads with compassion to provide trusted resources, create support and build community for all who seek it. The 501(c)(3) high-impact independent public charitable organization has served tens of thousands of families and healthcare professionals since its inception in 2013. 

At Eighth Revolution (8th Rev) we provide services from capital to cannabinoid and everything in between in the cannabinoid industry.

8th Revolution Cannabinoid Playbook is an Industry-leading report covering the entire cannabis supply chain 

The Dime is a top 50 Cannabis Podcast 

 Contact us directly at [email protected] Bryan Fields: @bryanfields24 Kellan Finney: @Kellan_Finney 

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[00:00:00]Bryan Fields: What’s up guys. Welcome back to the episode of the dime I’m Brian Fields. And with me as always is Kellen Finney. And this week we’ve got a very special guest Adam Young of realm of caring, Adam, thanks for taking the time. How are you doing?

[00:00:14]Adam Young: Thanks guys. Amazing. Couldn’t be better. I’m loving. The springtime is here.

[00:00:18] It’s finally trying to turn the corner, so I’m just enjoying to get out, get, uh, spends more time outdoors.

[00:00:25]Bryan Fields: That’s Carolyn, are you excited to talk to another west coaster? Yeah. Yeah, I am actually,

[00:00:30]Kellan Finney: I’m excited. He brought the energy. That’s a, I like that answer. You know what I mean? I’m doing well too. It’s a beautiful day out here in Colorado and spraying.

[00:00:37] You can’t really complain. How are you, Brian? How’s the weather.

[00:00:40]Bryan Fields: It’s very warm actually. So it’s nice that we’re having great weather and we’re going to have a very, very wonderful conversation today about a different style conversation. I don’t think it’s kind of spoken about enough. So, so Adam for our listeners can give it a little background about you and how you got into the Canada.

[00:00:55]Adam Young: Yeah, sure. Thanks for asking. Um, yeah, so my name’s Adam Young, I’m [00:01:00] a development officer in care specialist at the realm of caring foundation. Um, we’ll get into a little more of that in a minute. Um, but how I got involved in the cannabis industry is in 2013, my mom was dying. With multiple myeloma cancer.

[00:01:14] And she was living in Seattle and at the time I was in Chicago and I asked her if she wanted some help on this single child, she was divorced. So, you know, she was on her own out there and, uh, she wanted to help. So I just packed all my stuff into storage and drove out there. Um, and so by the time I got out there, I would say it’s about two to three months after her diagnosis and start of, uh, formal treatments through the.

[00:01:40] Uh, facilities, Seattle cancer care unit and university of Washington, great folks over there. Um, but unfortunately, you know, about three months into it, her body, and, um, she had lost like the third of her weight. She was lying in bed all day. She really wasn’t living life. And I saw like right away, I’m like, we’ve got to look for something else, [00:02:00] either that can compliment what treatments she’s getting or look for different treatments, something to help her.

[00:02:06] She just, I knew that wasn’t a long lasting, um, position that she was in. And so did a lot of research. I was actually, uh, volunteering for another nonprofit organization, um, actually out of California called the human solution, which they support individuals who have been locked up with agregious and sentences for non-violent cannabis related activity.

[00:02:27] Um, and through that group, I heard about this guy out of Canada, making cannabis oil for a bunch of people. Um, and his name was Rick Simpson. And so, uh, found out about that. Gentleman did a deep dive on research, uh, both Ford and against it and kind of presented it to my mom. And that way, you know, here’s some information for it.

[00:02:45] Here’s some information against it. What do you think? And, uh, after some, you know, time to consider it, she decided that’s the road. She wanted to take her at least try it. And so we went through our oncologists, we told her about the plan. I’d come up with a whole, you know, I found [00:03:00] the Rick Simpson protocol.

[00:03:01] And so. Step-by-step directions on kind of how to start incorporating it. And we showed this to our oncologists, then, you know, more or less, she was like, Hey, cool story. But, uh, if you do that, we’re not going to work with you. So we, she, you know, my mom had a really tough decision to make and ultimately she decided, Hey, I want to try this cannabis oil.

[00:03:19] And this is coming from somebody who smoked pot once in high school and that’s it. Right. And she’s in her sixties and, you know, Um, she decided to do it. The oncologist said cool story, but sent us on our way. And so we kind of had to figure everything out for ourselves. Um, and about three months after her starting cannabis oil and kind of detoxing and the chemo and radiation, those types of things out, it was like, somebody hit it flipped the switch, man.

[00:03:43] It was great. She started, uh, she was more active. She was out of bed. She was eating, she gained almost. You know, third of a weight back. And it was just like, you know, she was back to living a full life again. And ever since I saw that, that’s just, I’ve been on a journey ever [00:04:00] since. Um, I mean, we were traveling, we were moving and, you know, every chance we got, we celebrated that, that newfound quality of life.

[00:04:08] Again, it’s such

[00:04:10]Bryan Fields: a powerful story and I really appreciate you sharing that. And I, there has to be some sort of like internal feelings when you’re going through that wonderful. Is this going to work? Is this going to help my mom and then to come out on the other side and to see make such an impactful difference for her?

[00:04:23] It’s it’s gotta be eye opening for you. And I know it had realm of caring to do a lot of that conversations with others and kind of help lighten them up and, and share that experience. Can you kind of take us through what your role is at realms?

[00:04:34]Adam Young: Yeah, absolutely. Um, so, uh, when I first, uh, came to Rome McCarran, I was a care specialist.

[00:04:40] And so what a care specialist does, it’s someone who offers free guidance and support to anybody across the globe that wants to learn more about. And so, you know, I saw that like the job description on indeed or whatever it was, and I was like, whoa, I can get paid to do this and help other people just like my mom.

[00:04:58] And, you know, [00:05:00] everybody’s heard of the Charlotte’s web story and the little girl with epilepsy and how they can help to control her seizures when nothing else did. So, uh, it was like a dream job. I’m like, Please I can get paid for it. All right, let’s do this. Um, and so that, that was my main role as a care specialist.

[00:05:15] Literally, anybody can call us from across the globe and we’ll offer guidance and support free of charge, uh, to anybody that calls.

[00:05:23]Kellan Finney: That’s awesome. So realm of caring is a

[00:05:25]Bryan Fields: 5 0 1 C nonprofit. Is

[00:05:28]Kellan Finney: there any difference is running a 5 0 1 C non-pro. With it being cannabis focused versus another entity. Do you guys kind of have the same issues with like banking and, and other, uh, problems that the plague, the industry operators?

[00:05:43]Adam Young: Absolutely. Uh, it’s very difficult for us to find payment gateways. It’s very difficult for us to be promoted on Facebook, Instagram, et cetera. It’s not because we deal cannabis. We’re non-profit we don’t, we don’t sell it, distribute [00:06:00] it researching and educating research, education and community support and some advocacy in there too.

[00:06:05] Of course, but because the word cannabis is on our website, it throws everything out the window. There’s one bank in our local town that we’ve been in for 10 years, almost nine years in existence. One bank that we can go to

[00:06:19]Bryan Fields: at SU so ridiculous. Right? Because like every single person can look at that. Well, they’re not touching the plant.

[00:06:25] We have nothing to worry about, but at the same part, everyone’s like illegal, nothing we can do. And I think that’s like such a sad way to operate, right? If every single person can agree that this is fine, we should be able to kind of make adjustments to certain processes. But I guess that’s not how the thing works, but I want to stay on the conversations.

[00:06:41] What are some of those conversations like with the individuals and who is calling up? Is it a person asking about themselves or about.

[00:06:49]Adam Young: That’s a great question, Brian. Thank you. Um, so when we started out, um, you know, I’ll just give you a little background on realm Macquarie, and this will help tell the story a little bit more on, on [00:07:00] who we, who we help in, who, who we assist.

[00:07:02] Um, realm of caring was started by two mothers whose kids had a very intractable epilepsy by coincidence. They just had the same hospice nurse that got them in touch. Um, once this little girl, Charlotte Figi um, found relief Through a non-psychoactive version of cannabis, it’s now called Charlotte’s web. Uh, the namesake of, uh, that product is Charlotte Figi Um, and that was after 17 pharmaceuticals were exhausted. And, uh, she was sent home on hospice care because at six years old and you’re having hundreds of seizures a week, your body can only take so much. And after exhausting, all of the pharmaceuticals. You know, she was sent home on hospice and fortunately her mom page found some research Isreal and then one way or another, she found these brothers that were in Colorado that had this strain of cannabis called the hippies disappointment.

[00:07:53] Um, and it wasn’t getting anybody high. And so Paige knew that. it’s because of the [00:08:00] low THC, it was, you know, she wanted to try that for Charlotte. And the first time they put it in her mouth, she stopped season. I mean, it’s, you know, and this happened to Heather, our other co-founder her, son’s a Kai same thing, literally the same situation, just two different kids.

[00:08:16] And they both had the success on the first try. And so that’s kind of where the CBD. Um, story started in Colorado and then once Sanjay Gupta and CNN did their documentary series, that kind of blew it up. Right. And so, um, when we started, it was a lot of people. First of all, when we started there, wasn’t the hemp bill.

[00:08:39] So the only way to get CBD was to drive to Colorado or drive to California or somewhere where it was legal. And then you’d have to smuggle it back to your state. So we started as a repository, just taking names and making sure we’d have the oil ready for people when they drove out here. And so, um, to get to your question, um, we started by helping a lot of parents who were [00:09:00] calling on behalf of their kids And I would say about three. So right around the time of the hemp bill, little after the hemp bill, um, that slowly started shifting from parents, calling us to more of the aging or retired community started calling us. They weren’t so scared anymore. They saw the hemp bill, they started learning more about it and things like that.

[00:09:20] So I would say right now it’s probably half and half, which is really encouraging, um, uh, for parents to call us and then individuals that call us about the.

[00:09:30]Kellan Finney: They are those phone calls kind of, if you want to walk us through like a standard conversation that you had with some of these parents, are they calling just to get more information or are they typically pretty educated themselves in terms of the research they’ve done?

[00:09:42] Could you kind of walk us through the dialogue that occurs with the parents when they call in?

[00:09:46]Adam Young: Yeah, absolutely. I would say about 70% of them don’t know much or anything at all, about 30% really do their due diligence and really try and research it before calling us. And that’s probably how they [00:10:00] came and found us is through their research.

[00:10:02] Um, and so, you know what the most common question we, like, I would say a couple of the most common questions we get are will the, is this addictive? Will it get me high? How do I start? Where do I begin? How do I do this? Right? And so the typical phone call, I would say our average phone call right now is just under 30 minutes.

[00:10:22] So we really get to know these folks and their story and their situation. It’s important to understand their goals. Are you looking to try and eliminate this? ailment Where are you looking to improve your quality of life? There’s a couple of different approaches depending on what their goal is. So we’ll never direct anybody on what to do.

[00:10:38] We listen to them, what do you want to do? You know? And then we provide them with that education and all the resources that are available. Um, we have a research library that has over 800 peer reviewed articles that all detailed cannabis and specific ailments. So, you know, we like to say that our. Our guidance and our suggestions all research backed that used to be [00:11:00] anecdotal.

[00:11:00] But now we have a lot of research to backup what we say and that’s what guides our current.

[00:11:05]Bryan Fields: Has to be such an exhausting conversation. I’m just trying to envision like my mom calling up being like emotionally driven, trying to help like my sister and the case, and kind of being almost desperate in the moment, trying to find some sort of solution or possible, right.

[00:11:20] She’s like calling a complete stranger. Hey, saying, Hey, my daughter has this problem. Can you help us? And it’s gotta be like mentally exhausting going through those comments.

[00:11:30]Adam Young: Yeah, that’s a great point. Brian, not a lot of people realize that, but yes. Um, you know, especially back in the, even two, three years ago, a A lot of people use cannabis as a last resort.

[00:11:41] Right. I’ve tried everything else. Shit. We’re in a really, sorry, we’re in a really bad position. Like this is our last resort. We’re just going to try it. But fortunately, now people are trying to use this as a first line of approach or a second line of approach or as a complimentary, uh, modality to what they’re already doing.

[00:11:58] So, um, yeah. [00:12:00] And to your point, Brian? Yes, we get a lot of frantic parents. We get a lot of, um, people themselves. They’re just scared, you know, they just got a diagnosis or they’ve got this or that and nothing’s working and they’re just scared. So, um, we’re very aware of that. We really nurture these people, but internally our small team of associates and especially our care team, we’re very cognizant of this.

[00:12:23] And so we encourage each other to take breaks throughout the day. We’d go for walks around the building, around our homes, wherever we live or work. And so, yeah, that’s very important, but we’re also very aware of that. You know, we, we also take on that burden of. Um, and, uh, so we’ve got good methodologies behind the scenes that we use to kind of ease that stress and kind of let go of a lot of those emotions.

[00:12:46] Yeah. I’m so

[00:12:46]Bryan Fields: glad to hear that. And the bonds you’re probably building with these complete strangers in these moments, right? Like providing a recommended alternative to whatever situation or frantic diagnosis they were given. If it helps them. I [00:13:00] can only imagine the type of feeling that they have towards, of gratefulness, just in the sheer fact that they reached out to a complete stranger and you were able to kind of guide them through the, those challenging moments.

[00:13:10] So when people call up just to kind of one last question about this, are they more like I have X, Y, or Z, or they more like I’m interested in cannabis do think this will help me with my problem. Right? How, how do they lead those conversations and make sure. It is

[00:13:25]Adam Young: a mixture of both, but I would say it’s more so here’s what I have.

[00:13:30] Will this help, or can you direct me on how to use this successfully? That’s that’s the majority of people. Um, occasionally we will get, some people have heard about this CBD thing or this cannabis thing, you know? Uh, tell me more about it. And then, and then, you know, either way though, Brian, I could talk about this stuff all day.

[00:13:47] Um, you know, It’s such a joy to be able to, to kind of shed the light or, or shine a light on this Mo on cannabis in general, to these folks who are just still in the dark, even though [00:14:00] there’s 39 states in Washington, DC have medical programs, 18 states are fully legal for adult sale use instill still.

[00:14:08] There are so many people that, um, either are dismissive of it, or just not aware of, uh, the potential for.

[00:14:15]Bryan Fields: Does anyone ever call up and just kind of just ream you guys out it’s pure anger, right? Sometimes you see like a positive sign and sometimes people just get that, the anger phone call with it. You know what, like I’m anti-cannabis I heard governor Rick it’s like Adam and his team are trying to kill my kids.

[00:14:30] Like I’m going to call out. Do you ever get any of those negative phone calls?

[00:14:33]Adam Young: No, you know what, Brian, uh, thankfully we don’t get too many. I think I might’ve had one that was kinda similar to that. Um, I think the most pushback we received as people on the Facebook groups and stuff, just talking all sorts of mad stuff about us, but, uh, fortunately a lot of those people don’t actually call us.

[00:14:49] Right. It’s kinda like those people that, uh, are so noisy on social media that have a handle. That’s not even their name and they’re just, you know, random people talking to the crowd. [00:15:00] Right. Exactly. You guys get

[00:15:01]Kellan Finney: any, uh, like medical professionals that call, they were looking for education and cannabis as well.

[00:15:06] Cause I know that that’s not something that’s taught in at least United States medical.

[00:15:11]Adam Young: Right, right. Yeah. Thanks Kelvin. That’s a great question. So we have a network of almost 1400 medical professionals that we work with. Um, in one of the options that we’ll give our clients is that, you know, if their doctor is in the dark or they’re saying, yeah, you can try it, but I don’t know much about.

[00:15:30] We’ll consult with the doctor in their patient, who is our client. Um, and we’ll get them on a conference call and we have a lot of, we actually have a practitioner portal where we’ve done a lot of deep dives on clinical research regarding like, let’s say breast cancer or breastfeeding while taking cannabis or different topics like that.

[00:15:49] So they, there is a. An area for practitioners that they can get more detailed information from us. And yeah, we support, like I said, almost 1400 [00:16:00] medical professionals. During your

[00:16:01]Kellan Finney: time there, have you noticed, uh, like a tangible change in how the doctors are approaching the education with their, their, um, clients associated with cannabis?

[00:16:13] Have you noticed like over the last five years, them kind of opening up more or has it always been. Consistent in terms of those conversations.

[00:16:21]Adam Young: Yeah. I wouldn’t say it’s a drastic change, unfortunately. Um, but we are seeing an increase in doctors, at least being willing to consider it

[00:16:29]Kellan Finney: or have a conversation

[00:16:30]Adam Young: about it.

[00:16:30] Right. Correct. And I just actually learned earlier this year, um, that the nursing, um, there’s, uh, nursing associates and that is actually going to be training on the endocannabinoid system, cannabinoids turpines, et cetera. The nurses are starting to take it on, which I think that the nursing, um, professionals out there, I think they always have been more supportive of it than doctors.

[00:16:55] Um, you know, with doctors, I blossomed because they have a really [00:17:00] tough job and they also have a license that hangs over their head that can be taken away at any given time. Right. So they have a lot to lose and thankfully the nurses have been advocates of ours for a long time. And now it’s actually going to be.

[00:17:13] To be taught to these folks in the curriculum.

[00:17:16]Bryan Fields: Shout out Ashley, if that’s the one who did it, we had it. I was going to see if you’re going to shout her out. That’d be pretty. That’d be pretty bad-ass if it can actually, she was talking about it though, right? That’d be cool connection. Right. And it’d be like two, two links that did definitely get together.

[00:17:28] So if not, maybe actually it should be the one that connected up. So last question on this topic, what is a conversation you’ve had with an individual that has surprised or shocked you, you know, during the conversation, like you thought one thing and then after you were just completely.

[00:17:44]Adam Young: Hm. Wow, that’s tough.

[00:17:47] Um, because you know, I don’t, to be honest with you, Brian, most of the calls, whether they’re afforded or against it, when they called by the time we get off, it’s a great call. Um, [00:18:00] very rarely have, you know, I, occasionally we get some folks, especially. That have tried a certain path or a certain, uh, let’s say, uh, milligram content per day, that they’re trying to give their kids and it’s not working.

[00:18:12] And they get extremely frustrated and call us in. Usually I have looked at, I have gotten like yelled at, in the beginning of the call, but again, excuse me, by the time we get off the phone, it’s usually a very good conversation. We end it well. Um, Yeah, there are, there have been, uh, certain gentlemen of the, uh, older age that have called and those calls haven’t really ended too well, but you know, you can’t change.

[00:18:39] Everybody’s mind if somebody’s calling and they’ve got their mind made up. This is how it is, and I’m going to tell him, set them straight, you know, that’s cool, man. Go on your way. That’s why we, you know, as long as I can share my story, uh, tell them what we’re about the education, the research. Um, and then if they don’t agree or they don’t [00:19:00] want to partake in, in anything, that’s fine.

[00:19:02] Um, but I really don’t get those a lot, Brian, thankfully. Yeah. I was just like totally shocked. And I feel like that call was a waste of time. I mean, that just, it really doesn’t happen. I wasn’t sure if you were

[00:19:12]Bryan Fields: shocked more about like the findings, right. If like went in and you, you assumed one thing would help them and then it turns out it’s a completely.

[00:19:20] You know, modality or another product or another concept to help them just curious to know if any of those ever

[00:19:25]Adam Young: experienced. Sure. Yeah, actually. Okay. Maybe I misunderstood the question, right. Um, so there is one story that I tell folks, uh, I had this older, I think it was in his eighties, his wife tried some CBD, had tremendous success on it.

[00:19:38] Right. And he’s like, oh, I want to try some of that too. My man ended up getting so high off CBD that he couldn’t even drive. Right. And so I warn people about that, that some people are really, really sensitive to it. And so that’s when you want to go for like a broad spectrum, uh, I don’t typically encourage isolates, but broad spectrum products [00:20:00] are really good for that.

[00:20:01] Um, the other thing is, and, um, I was just listening to a podcast recently of your guys. Um, the, uh, sorry, I forget his name, so I’ll just continue. Um, but there are folks out there who, um, I’ve got this other gentleman who’s older as well. And he tried this one product for about four months. Did not work titrated up on a schedule every couple of weeks.

[00:20:24] Dah, dah, dah. Then he tried another product and it worked right away. And what is that? That’s the turpines, that’s another, that’s the full profile, right? That entourage effect. And so some products, if they don’t work, I always encourage people to try another product before they give up. Um, and that one actually surprised me, Brian.

[00:20:44] I was really surprised about that because this guy took it consistently two, three times a day, titrate it up. I mean, he taken quite a bit and I’m like, you know what? Let’s just try this product and stuff and sure enough, you know, so that was a welcome surprise.

[00:20:57]Kellan Finney: Yeah. I mean, it’s crazy, right? Like all of the cannabis [00:21:00] that’s ground for Epidiolex is grown in one facility.

[00:21:03] In every it’s highly controlled, uh, as you possibly can, to try to mitigate any of those chemical variations from a, a terpene profile perspective.

[00:21:13]Bryan Fields: Yeah. But the body chemistry, right. Has all those differences and like what you consume for that day and your tolerance. There’s, there’s so many variables.

[00:21:19] Right. And as Dr. Abrams loves to say many to many problems as I, as I want to reiterate over and over again. Cause it seems like that is so Adam, do, do people ever ask you is more better when it’s consuming these.

[00:21:31]Adam Young: Yeah. All the time. Right. And so, uh, we do have standard, uh, let’s say suggestions that we’ll, we’ll take people on whether they’re medically sensitive adult pediatric, or if they have cancer and they’re trying to, you know, create apoptosis, uh, there’s different approaches for everybody that takes it.

[00:21:48] Um, so yeah, there’s, you know, a lot of people in. There’s a couple things to that one is that a lot of people think it’s like an Advil where you take it once [00:22:00] and 30 minutes later, you’re feeling. THC. It might work that way, but with CBD, it’s not necessarily, it doesn’t work that way. Uh I’ll just tell you straight up.

[00:22:08] Right. And so, um, that, that is a big learning curve for a lot of people in the fact that, you know, highly concentrated forms of hemp, uh, are usually in a tincture variety. So you have to drop drops under your tongue and folded there. Right. And people just want to take capsules or pills, and they’re not used to this.

[00:22:26] So that’s often a challenge that we, we get over, um, very quickly. But yeah, the, you know, there’s some doctors that even say microdosing CBD is if, uh, you know, a valid way to approach things, we don’t necessarily take that approach, but we also, uh, we don’t want people to, you know, go crazy right off the bat.

[00:22:45] And, you know, because there is a bell shaped curve to how it responds to your body. And so if you take a little bit, you might feel a little bit, you take a little. But everybody has their optimal dose, but once you exceed that optimal dose, you actually see a [00:23:00] decrease in those benefits. And so we really encourage people to titrate up slowly, start slow and increase slowly.

[00:23:06] That way you don’t miss that ideal dose for your body. That’s really well

[00:23:11]Bryan Fields: said. Yeah. So let’s talk about some of the events. Uh, I’m excited to hear about what’s in the pipeline for realm and, and some of that information on the.

[00:23:20]Adam Young: Yeah, thanks, Brian. Well, I, I, I would be remiss if I didn’t mention last year.

[00:23:25] Um, we had a Memorial and benefit concert for Charlotte Figgy. Um, she passed away in 2020 on April 7th and unfortunately, uh, her family wasn’t able. Provide the services during the pandemic and all those things. So, um, last year we did a Memorial and benefit concert for her called rock the rock. So it’s R O C K the ROC rock, rock, the rock.org.

[00:23:50] Uh, strongly encourage everybody to go check it out. Still online, it’s free. It’s uh, uh, the company that produces the Grammys produced this, the Ava [00:24:00] brothers, Jason morass, uh, Leslie Schultz from the luminaires. A lot of people participated in. You really get to know Charlotte’s story, her family, the Stanley brothers who gave her the oil and then a couple of other families are profiled as well.

[00:24:13] Um, and then this year we have a, um, event at top golf in Denver. Um, this will be a major networking. For, uh, all the industry players. So, um, I highly encourage people to visit, run with caring.org and you can check out a link there for more information. Um, it is in September, uh, sales start in June, uh, for the tickets.

[00:24:36] And so, um, we’d love to see everybody there. And, um, if anybody wants to reach out for more information, Adam, at Romo caring.org, I’ll be more than happy to facilitate any conversation about.

[00:24:48]Kellan Finney: Yeah. And so Romo caring is, uh, like we said, a nonprofit. So these kinds of events help you guys support your mission.

[00:24:54] Is there any other way that people can kind of help you guys on your day?

[00:24:58]Adam Young: Yeah, thanks for that Kellen. So [00:25:00] realm of caring.org/donate, um, we do re we, um, we rely on donations, right? Uh, we are a nonprofit. We don’t sell or produce any products. Our product is our, our community support. Our research with Johns Hopkins university, our education to the medical professionals and the clients and people across the globe.

[00:25:20] And so we rely on donations to sustain us and to keep our services free. That’s really important. There are other folks out there who help people through their cannabis journey. But it’s typically it comes with a price, right? And so we always, our services have been free and they always will remain free.

[00:25:38] And so yes, any financial support to run with caring is always welcomed. And that top golf event that I mentioned in September is a fundraiser and that will help sustain us so we can continue the amazing work that. Yeah,

[00:25:51] your

[00:25:51]Kellan Finney: guys’ work is so important right now, especially with the lack of federal support.

[00:25:55] And we don’t have our institutions kind of throwing a bunch of research hours out it, [00:26:00] so it’s just as important as possible right now. You guys in the organization,

[00:26:04]Bryan Fields: is there any operators you can call out as like main sponsors and ones that, you know, we can call out to help push the initiative so that they can support you guys further.

[00:26:14]Adam Young: Sure. Absolutely. I mean, uh, you know, we’ve been, we’ve been closely aligned with Charlotte’s web for a long time. They support. Um, they have always supported us. Uh, in fact, some people thought we were the same thing and, and we’re not, we’re, non-profit, they’re a for-profit, although they are a certified B corporation now, which is really cool.

[00:26:32] Um, totally appreciate that. Um, another one of our longtime partners out of plug low Colorado is Stratos. They have a THC and a CBD line, um, Aspen green. Those guys have been great. Uh, we’ve worked with them for a long time and. Um, we’re getting ready to make a couple more announcements within the next few weeks.

[00:26:51] So we’re excited to see that. So just keep a tab on realm of caring.org and look for the, our sponsors tab to follow all those awesome [00:27:00] companies that help support us.

[00:27:02]Bryan Fields: What’s a message you would share with, let’s say an east coast individual who is unfamiliar with cannabis, a little newer to the space, and you know, is interested in, in exploring it, but still a little hesitant.

[00:27:13] Is there a message you could share?

[00:27:16]Adam Young: Well, yeah, it just a general message, right? Um, yeah, I mean, it’s tough because, uh, I, I spent a little bit of time on the east coast and, uh, back in the early two thousands, uh, it was tough, man. I mean, to score some flour out there, it was like, it all came in these little bags and it was really expensive.

[00:27:35] And, um, Yeah. Yeah. New Jersey and New York are represented now. So it’s great. Um, I would just encourage anybody, especially on the east coast or in the south. Right. Um, I mean the same situation lies down there. It’s just educate yourself, educate, educate, educate, um, whether you hear a good or bad, you know, look into it for yourself before you just jump right in.[00:28:00]

[00:28:00] Um, the good news is especially on the hemp side of things. Um, Please don’t buy products from the gas station. Nothing’s regulated yet. It’s in the gas station. It’s not, you know, that is nefarious products. Please don’t buy it. And that’s what I’ll tell a lot of folks because, oh, I just saw this thing at the gas station.

[00:28:18] I’m like, please don’t. Um, because every time that somebody tries that it doesn’t work and they put it in the shelf or they throw it in the garbage that’s, that’s another, you know, bad review for this industry. So I think education is, is critical. Um, and finding quality products is paramount. Um, you know, with the lack of regulation, uh, that’s in place right now, you want to look for companies that are CGM certified USDA, organic, like, you know, look for these certifications that companies have gone out on their own to get, because again, they’re not required at this point.

[00:28:51] So gotta be careful.

[00:28:53]Bryan Fields: The gas station purchases are always, they always get me. Cause you get those, those text messages, you know, like, well, where’d you buy an aunt Sally and [00:29:00] she’s like the gas station. Yeah. I don’t think I need to respond to explain to you why the product doesn’t work, but that’s a conversation for other times.

[00:29:07] So since you’ve been in the cannabis industry, what has been the biggest misconception?

[00:29:13]Adam Young: The biggest misconception. Um, probably I think I want to go back to one of those, uh, common questions is that people think it’s a directive and they don’t want to try it, you know? And I don’t know if that has a lot to do with the opioids and the fentanyls and all those things that are going around right now.

[00:29:32] Um, but that concerns me, that people think that they’ll get addicted. Um, because I really don’t see that as an issue, even on the THC side, um, getting. You know, there might be a mental addiction. You just liked the act of doing it or something in your hand or smoking. Um, but physically addictive. It’s not, you know, that’s the beautiful part, especially when we’re talking about CBD and little kids, let’s say if they took too much, it’s simple.

[00:29:58] You just stop [00:30:00] taking it. And you’ll feel better in a few hours. I mean, it’s pretty simple. You’re not going to go into shock. You’re not going to, you know, need, need some medical attention at a nine 11 phone call. So, um, the other misconception, I think, is that most, I think there’s a lot of people. Maybe it’s not a misconception.

[00:30:20] Lack of education, you know, it’s so versatile. It can be used to make concrete. It can be used to make biodegradable plastics. It can be used as a, um, you know, um, uh, dietary aid, uh, sub, uh, uh, supplement textiles. I mean, the list goes on it’s regenerative for the soil that it grows in. So like from the ground to our bodies, this plant harnesses, the power of.

[00:30:44] To make the world a better place. And, and I think there, the majority of people just don’t understand that

[00:30:51]Bryan Fields: that’s really well said. Yeah. Or we do predictions. We ask all of our guests, if you could sum up your experience in a main takeaway or lesson learned to pass onto the next [00:31:00] generation, what would it be?

[00:31:02]Adam Young: Okay. Always look outside of the box. Always look into things for yourself. Don’t take on base value. Yes. Yeah.

[00:31:10]Bryan Fields: All right. Prediction time, Adam. It’s 2036. What area and people’s lives. Do you think cannabis will make the biggest difference?

[00:31:21]Adam Young: 2032. I’m going to go with biodegradable plastic being made from home.

[00:31:29] I’m hopeful. I, you know, we’ll see if that happens, but with all the plastic and the maths and all these things that are floating in the oceans and clogging our streets and our gutters and our waterways, including everything, you know, uh, this really could be a good alternative and something that doesn’t last for a thousand years or something underground.

[00:31:47] Like it just, it doesn’t go away. Um, I’m really hopeful that, that the hemp plant will be utilized in more than just, uh, medicinal applications by 2032.

[00:31:57]Bryan Fields: That’d be game changer. Kaelin. That’s a really

[00:31:59]Kellan Finney: good [00:32:00] answer. I wasn’t even thinking of that. Honestly. Now it kind of like turned my answer upside down and I was like, maybe I should go a different direction.

[00:32:05] Yeah. No, I’m just stalling. What I think, you know what I mean?

[00:32:13]Bryan Fields: I’m

[00:32:14]Kellan Finney: 2032. What do I think is going to be the most impactful aspect that cannabis has on society?

[00:32:26]Adam Young: I think cannabis

[00:32:28]Kellan Finney: will in 2032. What is that? Six years, eight years.

[00:32:34]Bryan Fields: 10 years. I know what I’m thinking

[00:32:37]Kellan Finney: is I don’t think it’s, I don’t think it’s enough time. What I’m thinking. Um, I just guess, Hey, it’s hard. Give me a break. Uh, no, um, I think that, um, in 10, in eight years or 10 years, cannabis will most likely be.

[00:32:56] Utilized for a [00:33:00] mood regulation. Everything else I was thinking is just too big. Honestly, I’ll go with mood regulation and that’s my final answer. Brian,

[00:33:07]Bryan Fields: what do you think? I hope right. In 10 years, we don’t have any more of these like pharmaceutical addictions and that a lot of those problems are replaced.

[00:33:18] Uh, or solved right with cannabis. And I hope that as people like yourself, Adam, continue to help spread the word and fight the stigmas and allow people to have like an outlet during, you know, the most challenging of times when they get those unfortunate, terrible news. I hope that, you know, that changed a lot of people’s lives.

[00:33:37] And I think with your team’s edition and some of the research it’s doing, I I’m hopeful that that solution will be in the future. So for our listeners, they want to get in touch. They want to support where can they find you? Yeah.

[00:33:51]Adam Young: Thank you. Um, realm of caring, dot. Org is our website. My email address is [00:34:00] [email protected].

[00:34:01] Um, in, in, in addition to being a care specialist, I also work in support the development team. Um, and so, you know, I’m happy to have a conversation with anybody about anything that we. Or if they have any questions, um, our care specialists are, are top-notch fully trained. Um, takes someone about three months before they even answer a single email.

[00:34:24] So, um, you know, we’ve got a great team. It’s a very small team and we love talking about cannabis, whether it’s hemp, THC, CBD, CBG, CBN, you name it. Let’s talk about it.

[00:34:36]Bryan Fields: I love it. We’ll link it up in the show notes and everyone out there go support what they’re doing, make a difference and help kind of break down the barriers.

[00:34:42] Thanks so much for your time. Yeah.