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Hear as @BryanFields24 and @Kellan_Finney speak with Tahir Johnson, Director of Social Equity and Inclusion for the US Cannabis Council.
Tahir is a change agent committed to solving industry challenges related to social equity and social justice. He hopes to pilot programs with HBCUs to open up careers and economic opportunities in the cannabis industry.
Listen to this episode to hear:
- Social equity in the cannabis space
- Ideas of incorporating HBCUs into the cannabis industry
- Opening the door for individuals of color in cannabis
- Cannabis pioneers in the black community
Tahir believes that as we move forward with legalization, it is important that equity is included. He attended Howard University and worked in wealth management with Morgan Stanley, where he served on the Diversity Council. You can become a member of the US Cannabis Council at uscannabiscouncil.org/members#BecomeaMember
[00:00:00] Bryan Fields: This is the dime, dive into the cannabis and hemp industry through trends, insights, predictions, and tangents.
[00:00:11] What’s up guys. Welcome back to that episode of the dime as always I’m Brian Fields. And with me, I’ve got my right hand, man, Kellen Finney. And this week we’ve got a very special guest Tahir Johnson, director of social equity inclusion at the U S cannabis council to hear thanks for taking the time.
[00:00:26] How are you doing today?
[00:00:28] Tahir Johnson: I’m good, man. What’s going on with.
[00:00:30] Bryan Fields: I need to have you another east coast just to kind of put it on the record. Another east coast, Maryland in the.
[00:00:37] Tahir Johnson: Hey, east coast is in the house, man. You know, we taken over cannabis is spreading, definitely like wildfire over here,
[00:00:44] Bryan Fields: anything to say before we dive in,
[00:00:46] Tahir Johnson: I’m just here to bring the wisdom of the west coast to help educate the east coast boys over there.
[00:00:51] And you know, y’all been doing it for a minute in Colorado. Once we get ahold of stuff over here, man, it turns, it transforms into something [00:01:00] different.
[00:01:01] Kellan Finney: A lot of people over there on the east coast, New
[00:01:04] York, New Jersey, Virginia, Connecticut, like all within, like, not even 12 months, man. It’s been crazy
[00:01:11] Bryan Fields: east coast.
[00:01:11] Wait. So to hear, before we dive into some of the topics today, I’d love for the listeners to learn a little bit about your background.,
[00:01:17] Tahir Johnson: for sure, man. So like I said, I’m an east coast guy. I currently live in upper Marlboro and prince George’s county, Maryland. But I was born and raised in Trenton, New Jersey. I ended up out here in the, in the DC DMV area.
[00:01:31] Been here since 2001. I went to Howard university. I know the folks listening. Can’t see me repping with my Howard shirt, but I’ll always try to represent my historically black colleges and universities. I actually majored in marketing that ended up working in finance. Most of my professional career, I was an investment advisor, started out at PNC bank on the banking side and ended up working for Morgan Stanley.
[00:01:53] Then finally SunTrust investments before I transitioned over to the cannabis industry. For me, when I was in finance, [00:02:00] financial literacy was always something important to me, especially educating communities of color about, you know, finances, right? Cause that’s something that we don’t have enough conversations.
[00:02:09] And as I started looking at the cannabis industry and saw the access to capital was a major barrier to minority participation. It was something that attracted me to the industry. So in 2019, I started working as a bud tender at a dispensary right near my house called med leaf. I mean, I loved this so much.
[00:02:25] I’ve always loved cannabis, but once I got the opportunity to do. Quit the job in finance then went all in on this. I’ve had opportunity to do. It seems like in such a short time done so many things, but I started out, I applied for licenses here in Maryland, in my home state of New Jersey. And then I got involved in advocacy, man, once I, again, like once I found out about all the different problems and different things associated with the cannabis and.
[00:02:48] I really wanted to try to find ways to be a helpful in the solver. So as I got introduced to the minority cannabis business association and attended my first lobby day there, it was crazy. Cause I had no idea [00:03:00] what lobbying was, but I’ve always been like a relationship person. I had a lot of connections.
[00:03:04] So as I’m looking at the seat of the members of Congress that we were supposed to go talk, so I’m like, Hey, one of my boys, cheapest effort is Congressman, should I have. That’s why everybody says they looking at me like what? So it was like, that was my introduction to lobbying. And you know, through then, it’s just been ever since then, I had the opportunity to my girlfriend, Calico Castillo, who was the head of business development at the national cannabis industry association at the time.
[00:03:28] He, and I met there and that started my career on cannabis advocacy was the ed NCI for a year and got to start their diversity equity and inclusion programs really focused on again, inclusion in the industry and education. And in April, I had the opportunity to move over here where I am now with the U S cannabis council and marijuana policy project, which has really just been an amazing opportunity.
[00:03:51] Here at USCC and a MPP, I kind of really get to being with two different organizations, really tackled social equity and cannabis legalization from two [00:04:00] different fronts. I’m on the MPP side is more focused on, you know, state by state legalization and, and grassroots efforts, but at the U S cannabis council and focused on federal cannabis policy and in both making sure their social equity is a key part of our policy agenda, right?
[00:04:17] We’re at the 50 year anniversary of the war on drugs. Black and brown communities have been devastated for years. So trying to make sure that we have some restorative and economic justice with our legalization policies, but then also develop in a number of different programs for our members that USCC to participate in when it was really great, because we have probably some of the, most of the largest cannabis businesses that they operate in the U S and Canada.
[00:04:42] So to be able to really put forth initiatives that the entire industry can stand by to really change the game in a meaningful. It’s been like a dream come true for me, man. I’m loving every minute of it. Amazing
[00:04:53] what you’re doing on. I can’t even believe like depths of all the challenges you’re looking over common before we kind of dive [00:05:00] into some of those specifics.
[00:05:01] I’d love to kind of go back to the beginning when you’re in finance and you’re interested and kind of diving into. Take us through that thought process, because I think for our listeners out there who are intrigued, but kind of intimidated by the journey where you sure you were going to dive in, you know, take us through kind of that thought process when you were moving from finance to cannabis.
[00:05:17] Yeah,
[00:05:17] for sure. And, and, you know, mine was an interesting one. So for one you know, I’ve, I’ve always been, I’ll say I’ve been in and around cannabis in one way or another for you know, a good part of my life, but I was blessed to have the opportunity to, you know, have get a career in finance, something that I was passionate about and.
[00:05:34] And for me, I actually remember the specific moment, like when it was like, you know what? This is like, what am I doing here? And it sounds crazy, but I, even when I say it out loud, because I think it’s like career wise is the type of thing that people strive for. And I kind of did like a, I don’t know, my favorite rapper was Mesa gone growing up.
[00:05:52] Right. I kind of walked away like from finance, like at the peak of my career to do cannabis. So like for me it was like I was [00:06:00] saying. I had a client. So I’ve managed if you got anybody knows about anything about DC. So I was a financial advisor for Georgetown. And the Capitol hill branches, which are like a fluent areas, you know, places in DC.
[00:06:14] And I was having a meeting with a retired us ambassador that inherited a bunch of money and I was trying to help her figure out like a couple million dollars, how to plan. I sat there. I was thinking to myself like, what the hell am I doing here? Right. Because it was like, I’ve got into finance because I was passionate about helping my community and wanting to do financial education.
[00:06:32] But I ended up in wealth management, which is a great career, you know, again, I actually love doing it as well. I, you know, it was great to know about the stock market finance, all of those things, but it was a couple of things were happening at the same time for one. My, and this is what made me kind of know that it was cannabis.
[00:06:48] So my dad was diagnosed with fibromyalgia. Which is like a, like a neurological disorder. So he had all types of like crazy medications that they were putting him on. I, this nasty one called [00:07:00] prednisone and I’m like, dad, like I was like, I think you, cause I did it. I did a report. That’s talking about with the back when I was at Howard, you know, like early two thousands medical cannabis, still relatively new.
[00:07:10] I was at stoner guy in class then did a bit of a report or a research report on medical care. So I said, I said, Hey dad. I was like, you know, I remember we called it as late that I was like, I think you should try medical marijuana that might help you with this. And so he’s like set up a smoking weed since the sixties isn’t that you could tell me about this.
[00:07:27] So I was like, no, I was like, no, dad, I really think this could help you. So through that journey of us exploring like medical cannabis, Like, and, you know, trying to help him. That was the first time that I was exposed to like what the legal cannabis industry, what it was prior to that I didn’t really have any context other than, you know, what we all call it, the legacy market.
[00:07:46] So even a few years before that, like I, back when I was at Morgan Stanley, I even saw when GW pharma first went public. And that was like my first inkling that there was a cannabis industry. Right. And so through that conversation with my dad [00:08:00] we both got our medical cannabis cars together. And like, again, through that process, we learned so much at the same time.
[00:08:06] Hope Wiseman. Who’s my good for a nail, but it’s also the youngest black woman owned a dispensary in the country. She, she had just opened up her dispensary, Mary and Maine in 2019. So she was starting to get a lot of press and she had a finance background like me. She was an investment. Okay.
[00:08:22] Prior to coming into cannabis. So when I started hearing that story, it’s like really sparked something in me like that I could do the same thing and use that same scale. So it was like all of those things happening at the same time that letting me really know that it was time. And in addition to.
[00:08:38] Again, like I’m working at the dispensary. I started an organization called Canada bison. The bison is Howard university’s mascot. And the goal of the organization was to be able to connect the historically black college and university alarms to opportunities in cannabis. Because I was thinking about it all the way back then, is that like being a great way to be able to introduce more minorities to the industry.
[00:08:59] [00:09:00] And so like I started can bison. The national cannabis festival, I entered the pitch competition and I ended up being the runner up. Right. So it was like, I had these ideas of how I wanted to diversify the industry, knew about the problems that were there. And then, I mean, I loved being a bud tender, even though it was a job where I didn’t make any.
[00:09:18] So like all those things together, I just decided to go all in man. And thankfully I’ve been blessed that it’s worked out for me, man, because I would say I know so many other people that have like pursued opportunities to get licenses and so many other things the same way I did and started out, they haven’t been afforded the same opportunities that I have.
[00:09:35] So I’m always so thankful. And
[00:09:37] Bryan Fields: I appreciate you sharing that story and the journey, because I think moments like that, the discovery of oneself and kind of how they got pulled in. I think a lot of times people kind of look to figure out will there be a defining moment in my life where I realize it’s time to make the switch.
[00:09:50] And I appreciate you sharing that story. So let’s kind of talk about your, your day to day job, honestly. Your hands are tied across various different verticals with your contributions. [00:10:00] What’s the, an average day or a typical day, like for, to hear. And to be
[00:10:04] Tahir Johnson: honest, if it’s a day like today, I’m probably on zoom from like 9:00 AM to 9:00 PM talking to people I’m on the east coast, but trying to connect with west coast.
[00:10:15] But really right nail ’em over the past couple of weeks, I’ve had the opportunity to do a lot of traveling. Just so you guys out at MJ biz con I spoke on a panel at MJ biz and I also hosted a reception in partnership with minorities, for medical marijuana. There was amazing. The week before that I was at a conference in Ojai, California, beautiful opportunity, networking with cannabis executives there.
[00:10:38] So if, a lot of time I’ll spend time at events, educating with internal folks in the industry on social equity. But another thing that I’ve been spending a lot of time for the last, over the last couple of months, since I’ve been at U S cannabis council, a big part of, one of my goals is wanting to, as we tear down the stigma of cannabis and educate more.
[00:10:58] More people of color and people that [00:11:00] have been impacted by the war on drugs and to the cannabis industry. I’ve really been doing a lot of outreach to traditional like minority last civic organizations. And civil rights organizations. So over the past couple months, I had the opportunity to like Reverend Al Sharpton invited me to take part in the national action network cannabis panel.
[00:11:21] I’ve been a part of the U S black chamber of commerce put together a cannabis event for. A couple months ago, I had the opportunity to, to help AMVETS, which is a veteran service organization come out as the first VSO to support publicly support cannabis and do an event for that. So a lot of times, if I’m not doing speaking engagements is doing a lot of outreach, but then also really developing programs because you know, again, like trying to create an infrastructure that we can create easier pay.
[00:11:49] For people to get into the industry with less friction. And also again, since we have the, within my network, I have the membership and people to be able to provide those opportunities to be the bridge between those [00:12:00] two. And then I’ll say another, another way that I spend a lot of my time is focused on policy.
[00:12:04] So on the MPP side you know, focused with our, our state and legislative campaign folks, again, focused on policy for them. And over the past couple months, we’ve had so many opportunities to be engaged in policy at the federal level. So I worked very closely with our government relations teams, as well as the government relations leads from a lot of our member companies.
[00:12:24] So I was super active in trying to develop our response to the cannabis administration opportunity. Man, last week I had an amazing event. I just had some of my best friends who are cannabis operators come out and speak to members of Congress about the challenges of being able to operate in a cannabis business without access to banking.
[00:12:43] So save banking is another issue, as you can imagine, the way I came into the industry that’s near and dear and close to my heart. So again, if it’s not policy and programs is networking or we’re spreading the gospel of cannabis slash social equity, man. So that’s.
[00:12:58] Bryan Fields: So let’s talk about that safe banking [00:13:00] conversation.
[00:13:00] Cause that seems to be hot on everyone’s mind. Were the politicians surprised by some of the challenges that the operators were sharing or where they kind of, they understood them, but were still hesitant to make changes? Can you kind of share more about that?
[00:13:12] Tahir Johnson: Well, I think the reason that the event that we had last week is important is because there’s this narrative out there that passing safe banking or giving access to banking for cannabis would only be helpful to the big company.
[00:13:24] Or the you know, like the larger companies or to the banks. And I’ve thought that it was really important that we change that narrative because these are people that, again, a lot of what we see on what we face in cannabis prohibition or changing these laws is truly education, right? If people like knew that cannabis wasn’t the devil’s lettuce, like we’ve been sold all these years, or like they knew how these problems actually impacted minority entrepreneurs, that is not just being a cannabis sustain as a benefit.
[00:13:51] I thought that telling that story was important. So people were able to speak from a number of different experiences. I had my boy sucky blunt. He’s the first social [00:14:00] equity dispensary owner in Oakland. And by that way in the world, my boys saying the data’s G he’s the youngest African-American dispensary owner in the country with elevate cannabis.
[00:14:10] He has operations in Oregon and Massachusetts. I had my Jersey books, my big brother, Leo Bridgewater. He’s a super active veterans advocate in cannabis who’s who’s now pursuing a cannabis license and my home girl precious. I’m not going to even mess her last name up, but she’s a season. She’s from Jersey also.
[00:14:32] And she’s the CEO of a company called roll-up life. That’s pursuing this, pursuing a delivery license in New Jersey, and she’s really men. I’m so proud of her because she’s like, she I’ll say like a little sister. I watched her, you know, I’d always see stuff like myself and people that I’ve watched out just over the past year, CZ, Merz as a leader in the New Jersey cannabis scene.
[00:14:51] So I thought it was important to have her speaking and last, but certainly not least we had James Baldwin. Who’s the director of security for live well, one of the largest [00:15:00] cannabis dispensaries in the country. So they were all able to share different experiences, right? Like James legal to say that LivWell had like 15 burglaries or, or Rob, like a symptom robbers within like a 90 day period.
[00:15:13] That’s crazy. Right. It’s all about how that puts people in danger. During during the applies, his last year after the tour’s Floyd was murdered and there were riots everywhere. Sucky shot got ran in literally by hundreds of people who went into his stores, you know, because they knew that there would be cash and of course, marijuana there.
[00:15:31] So he was talking about how, you know, not only that situation, but how he stresses out about. Keeping himself and his employees safe because he doesn’t have this same multi-million dollar budget to keep it secure. Like, LivWell my guys, Shay you has a multi-million dollar business now, but he started elevate, like sleeping in his dispensary when he started it, he started with $50,000.
[00:15:52] I had to sleep in there to like, get his life started. So being able to tell that story of how we had to bootstrap it and then precious and Leo being [00:16:00] able to talk about you know, being able to talk about. They are just experienced for suing a cannabis license very early on and like a new state that is coming online with certainly you know, good to talk about, you know, cause again, if we say we want to help people, more people get into the Enstrom we talk about barriers.
[00:16:16] They can literally talk about like, I’m trying to do this and talk about the challenges that they’re facing. So again, I know that was a long winded way to summarize and say. That it really was, is all about telling the stories that is not just big cannabis at this impacts, but it has real implications for people of color being able to participate in the industry, but then also public safety and that speaks to everybody.
[00:16:37] So I think the safe banking is really about.
[00:16:40] Bryan Fields: Yeah, I’m glad you shared those different stories because there, there are incredible challenges and they make things way harder for people and the ability to have those necessities that other industries take for granted. Tell him, I want you to kind of expand on that from an educational standpoint.
[00:16:54] You think the politicians are surprised to hear these types of stories. But I think I just want to go back to [00:17:00] the narrative adhere was talking about. And I think I mean, let’s say banking, it completely changes the landscape because a lot of people don’t understand that in order to like, grow your company or do anything as far as capital goes, like you’re going out and you’d have to raise private money, which means like you’re diluting your ownership in.
[00:17:17] Or you’re giving up revenue or you’re, you’re borrowing money, insane, insane interest rates, right? Like 18, 24%. Like you’re literally just pouring concrete on your feet and trying to run a mile. Like it’s just not going to work as far as like building a long-term successful business. And that goes for small, small time operators.
[00:17:35] And what see banking does is it provides the opportunity for any size operator to go out and take like a normal business. Normal interest rates like the federal reserve sets, you know what I mean? And, and these are tools that a lot of people just take for granted in other industries, because they’re just standard standard practices, you know?
[00:17:56] So I think that the narrative is really important. I mean, [00:18:00] also as far as the communication that operators have with our politicians, I think is tremendous, just as far as. Communicating that, Hey, the cannabis industry is a real industry now and it’s growing it’s it’s in almost every single state. If there’s a medical program or, or adult rec in, and having, putting, being able to put faces to the industry, I think helps move the conversation forward as far as federal decriminalization.
[00:18:28] So, I mean, those are my biggest thoughts about safe banking. W what are your thoughts? Yeah, I think putting a face to the name and hearing the story kind of really resonates probably a lot stronger. And I think the one part that sometimes gets forgotten too, is that like, when people are trying to enter the space and they they’re applying for a license, there’s a ton of fees associated that are non-refundable fees.
[00:18:49] And I think sometimes we’ve had conversations where we’re blown away by the total cost and sheer amount where I think that that part alone doesn’t make the game fair for everyone. That’s trying to enter the [00:19:00] space and, you know, I wonder. People who are establishing these policies even recognize that they’ve positioned this to make it challenging, right?
[00:19:08] They’ve developed these social equity programs that they’re, they’re trying to help people, but then they make the rules of the game almost impossible and contradictory to allow for that. So to hear, I’d love for you to kind of expand on that from a social equity side. Obviously there’s a ton that’s going on.
[00:19:20] Is there something that you think politicians can do now to make more of a difference? Is there a certain location that you think is doing a great job that, you know, you want to show. Sure.
[00:19:30] Tahir Johnson: Well, you know, to that question, I’ll say first, you know, I think the reason that a lot of the politicians or legislators are, are thinking in the direction that.
[00:19:39] Right now. And I’ll beg up and say that legalizing cannabis and making sure that nobody’s arrested for cannabis, that we don’t still have people serving time for cannabis, like in any type of way, like, let’s just say no legal insurrections do a cannabis is very important. And I think that that is something that we absolutely should 100% pursue.
[00:19:58] When you look at the [00:20:00] actual political landscape of where we are today. I don’t know that there’s any of the like broad legalization bales that we put out, have the bipartisan support to get passed right now. So again, just this incremental bit of change could be helpful to a lot of people and it, by no means takes away like the fact that we need to still legalize cannabis or do any of those things.
[00:20:22] And I would say that I would personally see to it that we can send you to work on that because it’s important for me. Like I’ve, I’ve personally add cannabis charges while this is something I’ve lived. In my own life. So again, I think it is just it’s the education piece. Like people actually get into hear those stories, like in addition to like access to capital, this is also a really inefficient way to run a business.
[00:20:45] My friend fresher says she has to drive two hours to go to her bank. Anytime she has to go there that she has an existing bank, but the fees are astronomical. You got to drive two hours away and you can’t even get full banking service. So lucky literally said, like, if I got to pay a [00:21:00] $15,000 bail, I got to go drive around and get a bunch of different thousand dollar money orders to go pay this stuff.
[00:21:08] So it’s all about like, I’m already got access to capital. I’m trying to bootstrap a business and I got to go run around and do all of this extra stuff. How, how the hell am I going to be successful? So I think it was just really educated in doing that. There are some programs that I guess, social equity programs on a state level that are focused on giving access to care.
[00:21:26] I know in Portland, Oregon, they’re out there doing some great things. I think the city of Sacramento and California is also doing some stuff, Colorado. You know, they’re getting ready to implement their social equity program. And I know they’ve set aside some money to support those businesses, which is great.
[00:21:41] So, but being able to pass banking at the federal level, I think it makes a change because it also, I think you made a good point, right? People being able to go in and get access to. Just kept traditional capital in a different type of way where it just because you talk to somebody about a loan, they’re not trying to take equity in your company and different things like that is, [00:22:00] is a game changer.
[00:22:01] So
[00:22:01] Bryan Fields: you think safe banking helps level the
[00:22:03] Tahir Johnson: play. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, so I would also add, and this is coming back from my history of, of banking, right? I’m not naive that red lining and those things exist that African-Americans Latinos, people of color get less access to lending and capital from banks.
[00:22:21] And that’s certainly another issue. But one of the other things that we have opportunity for when banking becomes available, if you think of most national banks have some type of initiative towards supporting community and. And things like that. There could be opportunities for grants and different community grants and other things from banks.
[00:22:40] They could be helpful also, but again, I’ll say that it’s not a magic bullet. It doesn’t fix. It’s not like all of a sudden we get banking and we have parody, but it does give a step up. Right. And that’s, that’s all you could ask for it. Right? Like, We’re already trying to climb a mountain, you know, just get people a little bit of an event.
[00:22:57] Yeah. We just need to
[00:22:58] Bryan Fields: continue to do a better [00:23:00] job, right? There’s no unfortunate. There’s no one single bullet that can kind of change all of the issues we have. All we can do is continue to strive for improvement into calendar. Your question about leveling the place. I’ll kind of take the other side of it, where the longer it goes on, where we don’t have safe banking, the larger MSLs are just kind of separating themselves farther apart,
[00:23:20] Tahir Johnson: equity capital.
[00:23:22] They have all of this stuff. I’ve actually had the opportunity to score applications for like a stays medical cannabis program. And you see like people literally saying, I have access to millions of dollars in private equity. And you also see people on the other end of that. And I’ve been this person to people that are spending their life savings, going to family members, things like that, and try to make it.
[00:23:40] So if you could just go into a bank, right? Like if, say you who’s been in business now for a number of years, has a balance sheet can show his revenues even for an existing operator. If he could go into a bank and get alone will make a huge difference. Right? So it does help to level the playing field.
[00:23:56] Bryan Fields: And then I always wonder too, like the MSO is we’re aware that the longer, this [00:24:00] goes on, the more they’re kind of separating from the pack. So obviously I know they want to kind of do their part in kind of contributing for the overall benefit of the industry. And a lot of the leaders are pretty vocal about that kind of contribution.
[00:24:10] So I know you’re working on internship program and I’d love for you to kind of share more. Sure.
[00:24:15] Tahir Johnson: And you know, one of the things that I would add, and that’s, that’s one of the things that’s beautiful about us cannabis council, because the way the organization came together, it was literally like the, I’ll say like the top line mission in our founding statement is about building that prosperous, equitable, and inclusive cannabis industry for everybody.
[00:24:33] So, you know, again, I won’t say that of course, the most good operators, they stand to benefit from banking passing as well. That’s that’s not a secret, right? Of course they do have access to capital nail, but traditional capital would be better for everybody. But one of the things that I’ve seen is again, seeing seeing all these different large multi-state operators.
[00:24:53] Comes together to really support social equity and really likes to really develop a platform around that. [00:25:00] And with that being said is where the internship program and all of these other things that I’m working on comes into play. So it’s actually I’m super proud that we’re doing an internship program.
[00:25:11] We’re partnering with the congressional black caucus foundation and we’re going to have I think right now we’re up to 10 different interns that will be in different organizations. That are within us cannabis council. And so they’ll have the opportunity to really get hands on experience in the industry.
[00:25:27] And I think that that’s a great thing because they’ll get to learn directly from, you know, leaders. And one of the biggest things that you you know, people just need an opportunity to get their foot in the door, to be able to network and make contacts, to be able to learn about what the industry is.
[00:25:42] And, you know, being able to have like somebody being able to say that they have this on their resume will be a game changer for people. So I’m really excited and hoping that this will, you know, make a small little difference in the industry.
[00:25:54] Bryan Fields: I think it will make more than a small difference. I think you’re right.
[00:25:57] Experience is so, so important for, [00:26:00] for the industry as it goes forward because the industry is accelerating. It’s one of the fastest growing job sectors. If you don’t have experience individual to fill those sectors, it starts to become like a balancing act. Then people are looking for. So let’s, let’s talk more about that program.
[00:26:13] Is there less certain roles that are available? Like how, if people are interested in it, like, can you share more about that top level approach?
[00:26:21] Tahir Johnson: Sure. Well, the the congressional black caucus foundation is going to handle all the recruits. They’ve operated like internship programs for a number of years.
[00:26:29] And so they are kind of providing the structure. The interns will get professional development opportunities to interact with members of Congress as well. And then also to work with. Member companies that are, you know, that are part of whatever company they get assigned to. So it’s going to run it.
[00:26:46] The first cohort is going to be in the spring semester from January through may. We’re actively getting it up and running now. So I think
[00:26:54] Bryan Fields: that helps with the other issue. That’s arising in the industry, which is the decrease in [00:27:00] as far as women and minority leaders in cannabis companies, by providing the opportunity for the people to get more experience, then they’re going to be.
[00:27:08] Higher skilled individuals that can help take these companies to the next level as far as leadership roles go. So I just want to highlight that as well, because like say banking is only one aspect, right? Like having money is only one thing, but the people are, what’s
[00:27:22] Tahir Johnson: going to make the good companies know and Kelly you’re a hundred percent.
[00:27:25] Right. And the reason it does make a difference is because. Do you know, if you come into a company is like a bud tender or a tremor right there, the pathway of where you can go and rise up in their company is limited. But with this program, we’re going to give people the opportunity to N to answer it into professional positions, right?
[00:27:42] So this is like the government relations department, the finance department, the marketing department, the executive department. We want to be able to place people in those that it can create clear pathways for future leadership and, and.
[00:27:54] Bryan Fields: So important. So to hear this is question I’m as excited to ask you for our listeners out there.
[00:27:59] What is [00:28:00] one fact or statistic that you think will surprise or shock them about the cannabinoid?
[00:28:06] Tahir Johnson: Man, you know why it’s such a hard question, man. Cause I feel like now I’m like in a bubble. I don’t, I don’t even know what people know or don’t know anymore, man, but I think I mean, I feel like most people don’t know that they were like over there.
[00:28:19] There are hundreds of different cannabinoids. In cannabis is like the bud tender nerd coming out. But then like, you know, turpines is something that, that was super cool to learn about cannabis, right? Like the same type of essential oils that are in other plants are in cannabis. And that’s what makes up the unique sense or tastes that you get the texts.
[00:28:40] And all that stuff is super interesting. So cannabis is actually a lot more like a plant than I mean, it is a plant, right? There’s a lot more like, it has more similarities with other plants than we probably normally talk about. And with that being said about the cannabinoids, right? Like we’re just scratching the surface.
[00:28:57] Like weed is not just getting high. Right? Like there’s [00:29:00] so much more to that. And which is why we need like research and everything to try to events that.
[00:29:05] Bryan Fields: Slightly switch gears early on Illinois was praised for their social equity program. Their licensing didn’t seem to resemble that from an overall outcome standpoint.
[00:29:14] Do you think New York and New Jersey and more of the east coast states will learn from that and do a better job?
[00:29:20] Tahir Johnson: Absolutely. One thing I will say is that, so for one, then the whole concept of social equity is something that’s relatively. Like I said, sucky is the first social equity operator in the world and he just started in Oakland.
[00:29:33] I think he opened in like 2019. Right? So each, each time is like, it’s kind of described, I’ve described it in the past, like a laboratory of democracy each time. They’re trying to figure out what laws makes sense, what will make a difference, how to get it right. An Illinois for as much as they get bashed.
[00:29:50] There are some positive things that came out of the program while the licensing thing has been a disaster. Like the whole concept of money, going back to communities that have been impacted with their [00:30:00] program. There was something that’s that originated there, Illinois, New York and New Jersey have both taken that on and made it a significant part of their program.
[00:30:08] So now that the cannabis tax revenue will help to fund different programs that can assist people that have been victims in harm by the war on drugs. So I think that that’s really great. And so again, I mean, I swear, I hope we don’t have that same disaster out here. New York has already said, they just said yesterday that there that licenses likely won’t be released until 2020.
[00:30:29] So that means that tells you right there, that they’re being really thoughtful about this process. They don’t want to rush it. They want to research. They want to get it right. New Jersey, ours, our applications we’re actually due to be out a few weeks ago, but they haven’t. But what I’ve seen in terms of new Jersey’s regulations, I’ll tell you that I’m really happy with some of the things that I was hoping to see.
[00:30:47] Like, I’m not having licensed caps, not having capital requirements and I haven’t real estate requirements or things they actually put in place. In terms of talking about financial barriers, they actually made it really inexpensive and [00:31:00] accessible to apply for license. I want to say, like the lowest, like the lowest tier license, like application started like a hundred dollars.
[00:31:07] So like, where do you think that? Right. Like it’s normally thousands of dollars and all this other stuff. It doesn’t take a way with the intrinsic costs that are involved in a course. There’s still some local control issues that we’ll probably see similar to Massachusetts that will impact it. But I think we’re, we’re starting to out of the gate is definitely you know, it’s definitely a good.
[00:31:26] Bryan Fields: So I got to bring up the New York question. So why if New Jersey is getting their stuff together so fast, why is New York? They’re just gonna allow New Jersey to open up and we’re just going to fall behind because I mean, the money is just going to go right over the.
[00:31:39] Tahir Johnson: Oh, no man. But I’m just going to accept it.
[00:31:41] This is like our first time ever in New Jersey to ever beat New York at anything. So it’s like, thank you. I’ll I’ll take it. Hopefully we don’t end up looking bad though, you know? And it, it comes out good. So you know that that’s all I can say.
[00:31:58] Bryan Fields: The guess thing with New York is like, how are they going [00:32:00] to balance the limited licenses with a social security program?
[00:32:03] Cause like if you limit licenses, you’re instantly going to make it like a. Am I, in my opinion, like the person with the most money is going to win that game hands down. So like, how do you balance that in New York?
[00:32:14] Tahir Johnson: That’s a good question, but I’ll say they got, they have really smart people working on it up there.
[00:32:20] The New York in particular. One of the things that is great is that they have, you know, people that have shown like over the course of their career, commitment to advocacy, commitment, to social equity, some commitments to diversity and inclusion within their leadership. Hopefully the results will be fruitful.
[00:32:38] That’s a good
[00:32:38] Bryan Fields: answer. That was a very optimistic approach. I appreciate, especially for reading that, what you shared about what was announced yesterday about like the timeline for 2023, I just sat there and shook my head and was frustrated, right. Obviously I want this market to move faster because I know there’s tons of opportunities that it brings.
[00:32:59] And then I [00:33:00] wonder, you know, why not lean on the other successes the other states have and even more so learn from some of the failures that they’ve had to start implementing that information sooner. Of course, I know it doesn’t work like that, but can always.
[00:33:12] Tahir Johnson: Hey, man, what do you know? New York always likes to put on a show and do a big man.
[00:33:16] Like I would say I’m still confident in New York. Again, hopefully I’ll end up with egg on my face later, but like I said, the fact that I think that they are being intentional and taking their time. I know for those of us that want to have an opportunity to really participate in India. Like, you know, people that have been waiting this forever, like New York in particular, the homeless stop and frisk, like people being arrested.
[00:33:38] Who else? I thank God in New York though. Thank God. It is legal. And it hasn’t like waited because I’m not going to lie. Like, I love that you can smoke weed, like anywhere in New York, like, you know, so that’s one thing super. But again, I’m just going back to, when will it pass? You know, hopefully that when it does come, it will be something that’s that is like you said, I wholeheartedly [00:34:00] believe that they will have learned and maybe they just want to give them that New Jersey go first.
[00:34:03] They could watch us and maybe learn from whatever we’ll do there. But you know, who knows that,
[00:34:08] Bryan Fields: that very positive spin on something that is going to be a financially expensive opportunity to watch and learn.
[00:34:16] Tahir Johnson: Oh, yeah, very financially expensive.
[00:34:19] Bryan Fields: I just want to say one other thing. Hold on. Before we move on, do you see, you mentioned the stopping first thing.
[00:34:23] Did you see the new law that came out in Philadelphia?
[00:34:26] Tahir Johnson: No, it was Philly. So Philly. It has no, it has
[00:34:31] Bryan Fields: nothing to do with canvas. It literally has everything to do with traffic stops
[00:34:35] Tahir Johnson: near there’s
[00:34:37] Bryan Fields: traffic, but yeah, totally. Which is. I think it’s incredible,
[00:34:42] Tahir Johnson: honestly. Oh man. It is as somebody that so I’ve been pulled over, like over 70 times in my life, you know?
[00:34:49] So it’s like, as somebody that’s experienced that like firsthand, like growing up in Trenton, New Jersey, they had driving while black and racial profiling was so real man, like almost anytime you’re in a car with [00:35:00] like more than a couple people are like, they see you in a certain neighborhood, they just gonna pull you over.
[00:35:05] So. And it could be something like a tail light out, or I’ve been pulled over for having the little tree air freshener in my car because they said that’s obstruction of view. So like that’s the way they get down in those areas. So being able to change that law will have a significant impact on the criminal justice system there.
[00:35:23] So I’m, I’m thankful for that.
[00:35:25] Bryan Fields: So slightly switching gears, hero or mentors in the cannabis industry, that’s made a difference in your career and what did they do?
[00:35:34] Tahir Johnson: Oh man, mentors and heroes. So first stop, like I said, like I started with earlier, I’ve got to say my girl who wife. If it wasn’t for her, I wouldn’t have been looking at cannabis.
[00:35:45] The same type of way that I, that I have, you know, some, some people that folks might not expect me to say, but I’ll say like New Jersey weed, man, like growing up in Trenton. Although he doesn’t operate in the legal cannabis industry, like seeing his advocacy and how we fought for [00:36:00] legalization for people that have been victims of the war on drugs is always something that’s been inspired for me.
[00:36:05] Another big mentor for me is convenient. Who’s the head of social equity and diversity and inclusion at Cura leaf. She and I met all the way back when I was still in finance and before she was even at cure leaf and cannabis. And so from day one, she’s been a big inspiration for me. Here in DC, Dr.
[00:36:23] Shonda, Missy is Linda Mercado green, who were owners of the both dispensaries here in DC. They took me under the wing and treated me like a son licensed as I met them, like Dr. Shonda. She was a former Howard professor. So like me and her early on was influential for me. And same thing with Linda man.
[00:36:39] I call her my auntie, like, and she’s even ahead of our DEI task force. So I’ve always been able to call on her. And again, Man, Wanda James, that is my girl right there in Colorado, man. I just love how she rocks the boat. Get so much stuff done. I could probably go on forever. You asked me this Anita penny, man, Shanita, penny, former president of the minority cannabis [00:37:00] business association.
[00:37:01] As I was interested in the industry, I had so many conversations with her, like on the phone, talking her ear off and she’s a cannabis consultant. Somebody who charges people for free, but for some reason, she poured into me and helped me teach me so much. She also was the one that invited me to the MCB lobby day that really kicked off my career.
[00:37:19] And then saying that I have to say CLICO Castiel as well, because he bought me there to NCAA. And if it wasn’t for the. You know, like all of this other gray stuff probably wouldn’t have been happening for me. So those have been like some of my major influences. And then one other person I would mentioned to is my guy Calu Watson NABI.
[00:37:37] He actually was the one that started the team that I joined, where we apply for licenses in Maryland and New Jersey. And then one other person, even though she’s not in cannabis, I’ll say for my finance day, That really inspired me is one of my mentors, Marilyn Booker. She was the head of diversity equity and inclusion at Morgan Stanley and also the head of the urban markets group.
[00:37:59] And so [00:38:00] just these ideas that I have around diversity, equity and inclusion and how we can just really help is something that I really got from her and that I’ve taken, you know, from my finance days and putting on cannabis. Yeah, that would be a best that’s who I would probably say. And I say, I’ll just stop naming names.
[00:38:16] Cause like, again, there’s me. It’s like for me, like I find inspiration in so many different people. Like it doesn’t have to be somebody that has this high up position or like somebody that’s even above. And even blows my mind now, the way that I have people come to me and say that like, they appreciate what I do, or like I’m a mentor idol.
[00:38:34] So like, again, there’s people that are just getting started out that I find inspiration in and it makes me want to keep going. So, so I just love for everybody in the industry. That’s doing dope stuff. Like moving it forward, man is, is huge.
[00:38:47] Bryan Fields: You sharing that since you’ve been in the cannabinoid industry, what has been the biggest
[00:38:51] Tahir Johnson: misconceived.
[00:38:53] I think the biggest misconception and I, and I hope to clarify this myself because we, I think we all talk about the [00:39:00] generational wealth opportunity that’s in cannabis, but don’t get into cannabis thinking it’s a get rich quick scheme because it’s really not like everybody. Like people think everybody in cannabis is making money, hand over fist and it’s not true.
[00:39:12] There are people that are well off, but like, if you want a cannabis business year, you get to 88, you’re giving up like 15, 60% of your money to Texas. Right. So you got that. And then like, I was a bud tender, I made $15 an hour. So it’s like, it’s not like everybody in this is just making money, hand over fist.
[00:39:30] I would say that this whole generational wealth, although it is an opportunity is, is probably one of the biggest misconceptions that people have from the outside looking in. And I’ll add a second. One to that is that to be in the industry, you have to like have a plant such in business. Like I think having an ancillary business or find some other way to get involved is probably one of the greater opportunities in the industry.
[00:39:50] That’s often overlooked just because people don’t know it exists. Like I had somebody that I met last year. That was a, like a CPA. And he was talking about like, oh, I [00:40:00] want to get into the cannabis industry. I want to be a grower. And I’m like, do you know anything about growing? You ever grew cannabis? He’s like, no.
[00:40:06] And then we started talking, I’m like, Hey, you know what, I, Hey, maybe you could be a cannabis accounting, right? Like that’s a whole lane, a wide open niche. Let’s look at that. So that, that those are like some of the misconceptions. And I’ll always try to steer people towards, to help educate them on.
[00:40:19] Because if we’re talking about generational wealth, you might do better if you’re a cannabis account. And then if you try to, you know, start a, start a business that’s already very capital intensive that you don’t really have experienced. Yeah,
[00:40:31] Bryan Fields: it’s called a hobby, right? If you’re an accountant, probably just still be an accountant, but then you can be grown at your house and there’s your hobby.
[00:40:37] You’ve got both those checked off and I, and I think it’s so important that you share those because like we talked about the gold rush sometimes and how not everybody to get rich off the gold. Right? There’s the shovels. And what the picks is the saying Kaelin is that the. That’s the same shovels and picks, but
[00:40:51] Tahir Johnson: also cannabis needs accountants too, right?
[00:40:53] Like the industry needs all these other professional services that support every other industry. So like if you’re
[00:40:59] Bryan Fields: an [00:41:00] accountant, then it’s a golden opportunity to be a canvas accountant, same skillset, just a more exciting industry. If you will cash, you could sum up your experience in a main takeaway or lesson learned to pass onto the next generation.
[00:41:12] Tahir Johnson: What would. And this doesn’t really have anything to do with cannabis, but I would say one of the most important things is really, always believe in yourself, staying optimistic. Like I really believe that anything you set your mind to, if you believe it hard enough, you put forward the steps to do it, it can happen.
[00:41:31] And that’s whether you don’t believe it or not. To be honest, like people look at me and I’m. C all it is gray stuff that I’m doing. And it’s like to be honest, I have no idea how the hell did I got here is only through that dedication like bro, like, you know, long hours, like no, even when you think you can’t do it, pushing yourself to do it and being, I think the other thing that I’ll say is just being good to people, being a good person.
[00:41:54] I think that that’s not as valued as much in today’s society. I try to live by the phrase, [00:42:00] treat people the way you want to be treated. And it always comes back to you in return. So, you know, treat people good, man. Like that person that you might think is insignificant or that you don’t know where that person might be to be the person, you know, notice is hiring you or something a year from now.
[00:42:16] Right? Like, so, and that doesn’t even matter whether they’re hiring you or not, whether it’s a homeless person on the street or like a dignitary, you want to treat everybody the same. So those are kind of rules that I try to live by.
[00:42:27] Bryan Fields: Perfectly said. What’s the one thing that every person single person can do to make a difference for us CCS and MPPs mission going well, I
[00:42:37] Tahir Johnson: will say if you, if you believe in cannabis, legalization, reach out to your local legislator, let them know cannabis prohibition has been going on for far too long.
[00:42:47] We’re seeing the momentum coming now where states are legalizing at a rapid pace. So, you know, if you’re somewhere where cannabis isn’t legal, Make sure that you let them know that. And as, as we’re talking about federally, make sure you let your note, [00:43:00] you let your Congressman, you know, your, your members of the house and Senate, and know that you want to see cannabis legalization.
[00:43:05] And then also let them know that equity is something that’s important to you, right? Let them know that you want to see a inclusive and equitable industry for everybody that’s involved. And I’m just straight up in prohibition, man is no reason for people to be still being locked up for this makes no sense whatsoever.
[00:43:22] So, I mean, that’s what I would say. That’s how you can help me, man. Just, just help us, help us in his mission to, to end prohibition
[00:43:30] Bryan Fields: the following Kellen, your thoughts get involved also, I think talking to your friends and family as far as, I mean, of course, talk to your local legislators is going to be the.
[00:43:40] Most impactful if you will, but also talking to your, your friends and your family about cannabis. If you’re a pro cannabis, I think that like cultural stigma is still a huge thing, especially on the east coast. I mean, being out here on the west coast, we kind of get wrapped up in the fact that it’s been legal for a long time.
[00:43:55] And if it’s a lot more. Kind of like part of our everyday life, [00:44:00] right? Like driving in Denver, you’re going to see dozens and dozens of dispensaries and consuming cannabis has kind of become a lot more normal if you will, but that’s just one state. And in order for federal legalization, To end prohibition.
[00:44:14] We need the entire country behind it. And I think talking to your friends and family is the best way to help curb that cultural stigma, because once everyone kind of is on the same page, as far as cannabis, not being the devil’s lettuce, it’s really going to help push that momentum. That’s needed to convince both sides of the aisle that we need to end prohibition.
[00:44:32] All right, Brian, your attorney. It’s really well said. I mean, for me, it’d be our educational focused, I think be open-minded do some research, be the interested in kind of challenging your own internal assumptions. With stigmas that have been around for so long, it’s going to take time. And the only way to, to kinda, to really make a difference is to continue to work on yourself, but to be open-minded about changing your thought process.
[00:44:56] And I’m sure that can be a good message for people to just take in general, [00:45:00] but, but here even more important too, because it’s been stigmatized for so long and people have been, you know, they’ve faced the war on drugs for so long, and there’s still too many people that are facing these consequences and to make a difference, I think it starts with education and to hear, I think you’re doing an incredible job.
[00:45:15] I think for those out there that want to get involved, they want to learn more. Where can they get.
[00:45:20] Tahir Johnson: Sure may I see you can reach me on social media. LinkedIn and Facebook is just my name. Tyhir Johnson, Instagram and Twitter is Todd DD, T a H D I D D Y. You can reach me by [email protected].
[00:45:35] I’m always try to make myself available to help people that are interested in learning about the industry on whether you want to know about legalization or how to get active as an entrepreneur. So definitely feel free to tap me as a resource. You can learn more about us cannabis council at us cannabis council, that or marijuana policy project, that mpp.org.
[00:45:55] And last but not least, man, you got to check out my podcast, the cannabis diversity report, S [00:46:00] M I do it sporadically now, but you know, it’s all align on, on most of the different platforms, social media, and like podcast platforms also
[00:46:09] Bryan Fields: we’ll plug those all in the show notes. Appreciate you taking the time.
[00:46:11] Look forward to talking to you soon. Thanks guys.
